1LINE C?

Lowetide
May 10 2014 10:07AM

rnh common

I've been operating under the assumption that the Edmonton Oilers plan to bring in a 2 line center. A "Gagner replacement" and someone who will play between RNH at the top and Boyd Gordon/Mark Arcobello down below. What if the Oilers plan this summer is to hire a 1line C, and have the Nuge kill the soft parade?

parkatti faceoffs

Parkatti wrote an excellent piece on the subject here, it's a terrific read.

The main point for our purposes today is the idea that bringing in a 1line center, a more veteran center, is a better idea than bringing in a secondary guy. Put another way, instead of talking about Nazem Kadri or Sean Couturier, we might be talking about Ryan O'Reilly or Paul Stastny.

WHAT WOULD IT COST?

In the case of O'Reilly and Stastny, money. Lots and lots of money. They are both free agents, and have a high degree of value. Over at Fansided's Mile High Sticking, Avs fans were asked to vote on which one to play, and the results are significant.

stastny or o'reilly


VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER

vollman sledgehammer avs

This is the Vollman, and I'm using Corsi Rel (players relative to their teammates). Both players are getting tough competition and similar zone starts, and both have good to very good numbers. Offensively, they're sold, and both are quality in the faceoff circle, although O'Reilly took many fewer this season.

WHAT SAY YOU?

Assuming the Avs can sign only one, which player would you like to see in an Oiler uniform? Does it make sense to pay the max (this will be a grand contract, well past Hall's $6 million) and to hire a center who is more experienced? Thus allowing the Nuge to kill the softs?

kunis0

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

Make no mistake, we're talking about spending the defensive money on a center. However, with Parkatti's information, and understanding the Nuge needs some help, is this a better plan?

It might be.



C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#1 RexHolez
May 10 2014, 11:00AM
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Bishai in the Benches wrote:

Thanks for your constructive comments. I'm sure a new President of Hockey Operations would go into the dressing room, tell the team to stop sucking so bad, and we'd be a cup contender for sure. I'm so glad you've got this all figured out.

Blow me. He's the reason were in this position, period. But I guess you're an oiler fan so you have no problems with being a loser. Lets just keep everything the same.

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#2 billions
May 10 2014, 08:31PM
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we need a first line centre a first line winger a first line bruiser a first pair dman, a president of hockey operations who is not an ass hole like kevin lowe and someone who appreciates the fans.

Oh and someone who is not french canadian, cuz god damn those frenchies are idiots.

We could probably use a black guy or two-- usually pays dividends

Oh and better music at the games, get DJ Azaad

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#3 Zangetsu
May 10 2014, 10:21AM
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I like the idea, except for the part of exceeding Hall's contract. I thought he was supposed to be the highest paid on the team ala Lindstrom in Detroit. It could potentially create a rift in the room, and it would definitely inflate the contracts of the new prospects coming of contract age.

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#4 John Chambers
May 10 2014, 10:39AM
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Still think we see Eric Staal in C&B silks this fall.

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#5 madjam
May 10 2014, 07:58PM
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Gagner, Musil and our first pick to Dallas for Seguin and their 2nd round pick .

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#6 RexHolez
May 10 2014, 10:14AM
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They can do whatever they want. Just stop sucking so bad. It's embarrassing to be an oiler fan. I just hope this is Lowe's last swing of the bat.

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#7 ThatGuy
May 10 2014, 12:10PM
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Ignore that last comment as it was somehow lost in translation between my keyboard and the moderator.

Eberle Klefbom for S. Weber, is that too much? Maybe Gagner Marincin and the 2015 1st for S. Weber? What kind of combination of players would it take to acquire such a defencemen of webers calibre

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#8 ThatGuy
May 10 2014, 12:39PM
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David Perron for Brandon Sutter? Better defensive forward for offensive pop. Is Pitts even interested? They are speculated to allegedly be constantly looking for a winger for Crisby

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#9 Dan
May 11 2014, 02:29AM
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Nuge needs to grow a pair for one thing. He has played pussy hockey from the start. I haven't heard him say even once post game anything but the usual blah blah blah about how the team is improving and getting better. He is one big bag of excuses. Bad pick. He clearly gasn't got what it takes. Bad pick.

Eberle and Schultz are the same style of player. All offence no defence and no apparent likelihood of change. Nut transplants all round please.

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#10 Bishai in the Benches
May 10 2014, 10:28AM
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RexHolez wrote:

They can do whatever they want. Just stop sucking so bad. It's embarrassing to be an oiler fan. I just hope this is Lowe's last swing of the bat.

Thanks for your constructive comments. I'm sure a new President of Hockey Operations would go into the dressing room, tell the team to stop sucking so bad, and we'd be a cup contender for sure. I'm so glad you've got this all figured out.

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#11 Quicksilver ballet
May 10 2014, 04:10PM
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Oooh la la LT, talk nerdy to me.

No more numbers, it's too hard to focus after that attempted seduction eh.

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#12 Mr common sense
May 10 2014, 12:50PM
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I was never sold on Noogie as a 1st line C, even in red deer his most dominant side of the game was on the pp.

Imagine this: Instead of Hall (who I love but will break down like iginla), noogie, yak, the oil had taken Seguin, Landeskog, Murray. Our 1C, 1D and bruising winger problem of today would not be one.

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#13 Jeffff
May 10 2014, 07:17PM
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PoBoy wrote:

You mean the next 5

Yes, your right.

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#14 Jordan1126
May 11 2014, 12:47PM
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id do whatever it takes to get mackinnon... , nuge, kleftbom, and the1st rounder, hell even throw in marincin.

then i would trade yakupov, gagner and a prospect for sequin.

then i would resign hemsky to play top 6

then the oilers would have hall mackinnon hemsky first line and free agent sequin and perron 2nd line.

strength down the middle with scoring on the wings

role players through lines 3 and 4...problem solved :)

end of big splash...

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#15 PoBoy
May 10 2014, 07:15PM
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Jeffff wrote:

I wonder how the fans will react to not making the playoffs for the next 2yrs. Can't wait for the excuses.

You mean the next 5

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#16 Jeffff
May 10 2014, 06:57PM
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I wonder how the fans will react to not making the playoffs for the next 2yrs. Can't wait for the excuses.

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#17 Bishai in the Benches
May 10 2014, 11:10AM
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@RexHolez

Agreed, he/Tambo have made stupid decisions and brought in bad players. But players play the game, not management. The reason the oilers suck is because, largely, the oilers players suck. Changing out the POHO like you suggest does absolutely nothing. This team belongs to MacT now. I also agree that Lowe shouldn't have a job anymore, but the days of him screwing the oilers with stupid decisions are long gone. Firing him would do NOTHING to change the product on the ice. People like you who do nothing but spam FIRE LOWE everywhere don't actually understand how hockey works.

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#18 ThatGuy
May 10 2014, 12:07PM
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Eberle Klefbom Weber?? Is there a different combo of players to put together that may be fairer to both teams?

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#19 Rama Lama
May 10 2014, 10:27AM
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If we can get the Nuge to start eating donuts along with Marinincin we should be off to the races for next year.

As far as the fate of a second line center goes sign Stastny he plays a good solid game and let's not trade away our future. Trading Gagner for some draft choices would be my preference.

Leave the new draft choices in junior ..........if we are going to do this re-build right we need to stop panicking for next year..........we need to wander in the desert for at least another two years.

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#20 Mike
May 10 2014, 11:29AM
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I'm tired of the excuses with the Oilers . MacT has only been a GM for 1 year. Eakins only has had 1 year. Calgary Flames had a better record than Edmonton. That is all you need to know.

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#21 oilers
May 10 2014, 12:09PM
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Oh dream on.. no top 1st line Centre in Coming to edmonton. The agents would never do that to their a-list assets. Those are their money players, their most important properties.

Would u send your top asset to Lowe and mac t with their record?

No agent would. Dream on edmonton dream on....

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#22 Oilers4ever
May 10 2014, 02:38PM
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Jackson wrote:

Playing for the Oilers has stunted the growth of all the players. Put the top 6 on better teams they would be better players. So taking a top #1 centre in theory sounds good, but put them on the Oilers and you will see their potential move downward.

When was the last time the Oilers played a 200 ft game. Could you imagine them in the playoffs playing a team like LA. Oilers are in a lower division when compared to LA.

75% of the teams in this league arent in the same class as LA. Or Chicago, Boston, St. Louis and Pittsburgh for that matter. Your comment isnt valid in my mind based on that comparison. While I do agree surrounding them with higher quality players would help, realistically forward wise they only need a couple up front. Leave Ebs Hall and RNH together. When those three are on their game they are as good in my mind as any top line in the league. Keep in mind, I said when on their game. Kopitars line is much bigger but clearly the Sharks showed in the first two games if you shut them down they can be invisible as well.

Get a number 2 center with size (draft Draisital (sp) for 2 years from now) and another winger like Perron but bigger and play them with Yak. Move Perron to 3rd line. If Yak screws up next year again trade him. I think the oilers pissed in the bed drafting him. Primadona and knocked off the puck easy. Hopefully he proves me wrong next year. If its me I package him with Gags and next years first overall pick and get the number one dman back that we need...

But hey thats just my two cents.

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#23 Jackson
May 10 2014, 11:24AM
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Playing for the Oilers has stunted the growth of all the players. Put the top 6 on better teams they would be better players. So taking a top #1 centre in theory sounds good, but put them on the Oilers and you will see their potential move downward.

When was the last time the Oilers played a 200 ft game. Could you imagine them in the playoffs playing a team like LA. Oilers are in a lower division when compared to LA.

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#24 RexHolez
May 10 2014, 11:58AM
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Bishai in the Benches wrote:

Agreed, he/Tambo have made stupid decisions and brought in bad players. But players play the game, not management. The reason the oilers suck is because, largely, the oilers players suck. Changing out the POHO like you suggest does absolutely nothing. This team belongs to MacT now. I also agree that Lowe shouldn't have a job anymore, but the days of him screwing the oilers with stupid decisions are long gone. Firing him would do NOTHING to change the product on the ice. People like you who do nothing but spam FIRE LOWE everywhere don't actually understand how hockey works.

If firing Lowe will have no impact then whats the point of keeping him? He should be fired simply to show that being the 2nd worst team in all pro sports isn't acceptable.

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#25 Sammy27
May 10 2014, 01:37PM
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Would Jumbo Joe accept a trade - if traded. What would the cost be?

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#26 Quicksilver ballet
May 10 2014, 04:19PM
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@RossCreekNation

Also, almost zero chance Sean Couturier is moved in PHI.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ding ding ding ding, winnah, lets select another young top center, maybe even a little better than Sean. I'd think the Flyers are more likely to move Couturier than, say, the Boston Bruins are in moving a Tyler Seguin. That guy is a lock to be a Bruin for a long long time. Don't you think Ross?

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#27 OilClog
May 10 2014, 07:59PM
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Spezza

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#28 Tim
May 10 2014, 10:33AM
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Advanced stats should only be used to confirm what coach/GM already knows.

Way too many intangibles with Hockey .

That said either centre would be a welcome addition.

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#29 oilers
May 10 2014, 12:18PM
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Bishai in the Benches wrote:

Agreed, he/Tambo have made stupid decisions and brought in bad players. But players play the game, not management. The reason the oilers suck is because, largely, the oilers players suck. Changing out the POHO like you suggest does absolutely nothing. This team belongs to MacT now. I also agree that Lowe shouldn't have a job anymore, but the days of him screwing the oilers with stupid decisions are long gone. Firing him would do NOTHING to change the product on the ice. People like you who do nothing but spam FIRE LOWE everywhere don't actually understand how hockey works.

Wrong. Lowe is the problem because he is the leader who picks his management team and thus the record. Worst team past 8 years.

This has nothing to do with hockey. It is called organization leadership which looking at Lowe's record he has none.

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#30 jonny94
May 10 2014, 12:47PM
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As much as I'd love to have Stastny on the Oilers I don't think we should give a contract any bigger then Hall.

Call me crazy but I'd like the Oilers to follow a pay structure that no one makes more then Taylor Hall. It's the same idea Detroit did with Lidstrom.

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#31 bazmagoo
May 10 2014, 05:32PM
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Stastny could be a great move, but not at more than $6 mil per season. Considering this is his best season to date I'd reasonably assume he's hit his ceiling as this is a UFA contract year. He'd a great addition to the Oilers, but I'd much rather spend that cash on a #1 d-man myself. Too bad there isn't any available.

The team cap of a max of $6 mil per core piece is about the only thing we've got going for us right now.

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#32 oilers
May 10 2014, 10:41PM
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seanjohn667 wrote:

i respect you opinion, but i completely disagree. It is the POHO that attracts (or doesn't) top talent. It is the POHO that sets the direction of the team, ie. thinking the NHL is becoming a speedy, skilled league again, and therefore, drafting small wingers over and over. It is the POHO that has to stand up to the owner when he insists on picking the players he likes, but the scouts don't. It is the POHO that runs a professional organization that hires the best, and fires the incompetent, or hires friends and doesn't have the stones to let them go. It is the POHO that gives the impression of professionalism that can attract FAs. There is sooooo many examples and plenty of evidence that KLowe absolute must go, it is miles beyond argument. Seriously, not trying to be a jerk, but defense of KLowe is ridiculous. The man is cleary bad for the organization and is hurting it in many ways. As long as he is at the helm, they will never be taken seriously by FAs and agents.

Perfectly said.

All you Lowe lovers are doomed to follow a loser till the end of time.

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#33 Walter Sobchak
May 10 2014, 10:52AM
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We talk about Kadri & Couturier because its a financially viable option & most of us know that the balance just doesn't work out with the rest of the roster if you start whale hunting.

to beat a dead horse, but money has to be distributed evenly, that's why inflated contracts to UFA's or RFA's is poor asset management.

The Oilers have huge holes to fill, money has to be spent wisely.

A center could be had at the draft, or the pick traded for a center under contract, or you could whale hunt.....

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#34 admiralmark
May 10 2014, 01:55PM
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Sketchy wrote:

Let me try and follow you here. The management brought in bad players but its not their fault because the bad players they brought in are bad? I don't understand what you're trying to say

I think what he's trying to say is we get it. 1)Lowe has screwed a lot of things up. 2)Lowe shouldn't have a job at this point. 3)We are mad about it.

BUT: At this point its gonna make zero difference to fire him. AND it's getting real real REAL boring to read for the 2,673,999th time someone respond with. It doesn't matter as long as Lowe is in place this team will never win. Or fire Lowe that will send a message that incompetence won't be tolerated anymore. etc etc etc.

Personally now when I read a comment along the lines of Fire Lowe being the answer to all that is wrong with the Oilers? It looks more like Blah blah blah blah blah...

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#35 ThatGuy
May 10 2014, 01:59PM
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2015 2nd round pick and a 4th or lower or no extra pick at all For Bieksa and for Van to retain 15 to 25% of that salary? Maybe a similar scenario for Hartnell or D Stafford?

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#36 Sketchy
May 10 2014, 02:09PM
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admiralmark wrote:

I think what he's trying to say is we get it. 1)Lowe has screwed a lot of things up. 2)Lowe shouldn't have a job at this point. 3)We are mad about it.

BUT: At this point its gonna make zero difference to fire him. AND it's getting real real REAL boring to read for the 2,673,999th time someone respond with. It doesn't matter as long as Lowe is in place this team will never win. Or fire Lowe that will send a message that incompetence won't be tolerated anymore. etc etc etc.

Personally now when I read a comment along the lines of Fire Lowe being the answer to all that is wrong with the Oilers? It looks more like Blah blah blah blah blah...

Ok I gotcha. I'll stop talking about it and just accept Lowe for what he is. I'll just fall in line, support the team and get excited over our newest high draft pick added to the collection.

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#37 seanjohn667
May 10 2014, 08:01PM
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RexHolez wrote:

Blow me. He's the reason were in this position, period. But I guess you're an oiler fan so you have no problems with being a loser. Lets just keep everything the same.

i respect you opinion, but i completely disagree. It is the POHO that attracts (or doesn't) top talent. It is the POHO that sets the direction of the team, ie. thinking the NHL is becoming a speedy, skilled league again, and therefore, drafting small wingers over and over. It is the POHO that has to stand up to the owner when he insists on picking the players he likes, but the scouts don't. It is the POHO that runs a professional organization that hires the best, and fires the incompetent, or hires friends and doesn't have the stones to let them go. It is the POHO that gives the impression of professionalism that can attract FAs. There is sooooo many examples and plenty of evidence that KLowe absolute must go, it is miles beyond argument. Seriously, not trying to be a jerk, but defense of KLowe is ridiculous. The man is cleary bad for the organization and is hurting it in many ways. As long as he is at the helm, they will never be taken seriously by FAs and agents.

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#38 Oilerguy
May 10 2014, 10:33AM
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I'm not one to blame the coach but the handling of Nuge this year drove me crazy. If you think back to his rookie year, he played his own style. He used his brain and got into the open areas. He knew he wasn't a giant and as a result, played a game that used his strengths. His brain, stick, and skill.

Under Eakins, he tried to turn him into a different player. How many times did you see Nuge battling along the boards? Not his game. I know he needed to get stronger, but that will come over time.

Let him play his game.

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#39 RossCreekNation
May 10 2014, 11:15AM
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baggedmilk wrote:

Unless of course the Avs don't qualify him at the $6+ million that Feaster threw at him in that offer sheet. Unlikely scenario, but stranger things have happened.

All that means is that if they don't sign him before June 30th, they have to offer a 1 yr qo @ $6.5M. ROR could then accept that qo, or continue negotiating, in which case the $6.5M number no longer has any meaning. He can sign an 8 yr deal with COL right now with a cap hit less than $6.5. Regardless, ROR is worth every nickel.

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#40 Thatguy
May 11 2014, 03:31AM
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@Dan

I do agree that there are a few too many of the same players in Nuge, Ebs, Gags and Shultz. A couple also should probably be moved to create a more dynamic roster which can give and take "Heavy Hockey". Because this whole passing it into the net with these overly adored young skinny good at trick shots in practice type players isn't getting anything done 'round these parts. Then again most of oil nation would shart a collective brick if we had to ship out a good player for a good player. Like any team would somehow want some magic beans and spare parts for their significant investments.

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#41 Ed in Edmonton
May 11 2014, 09:41AM
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Oiler63 wrote:

If we stick to the $6M ceiling then forget about a top D from out of the organization.

I think there is virtually no chance the Oil will land a big fish via free agency to fill either of their glaring holes (top pair D man or 1C).

This brings me back to my thought that the Oil should be actively entertaining offers for their top draft pick this year.

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#42 1979
May 10 2014, 10:29AM
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I like this plan and think it is certainly more effective then Cobourne for D. I think there is a greater possibility the Oilers D improves next year with little change then the top 6 improving without a major addition. Also, long term we may already have the pieces of a great defense whereas it is clear we need another centre to complete our top 6.

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#43 Sketchy
May 10 2014, 12:36PM
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Bishai in the Benches wrote:

Agreed, he/Tambo have made stupid decisions and brought in bad players. But players play the game, not management. The reason the oilers suck is because, largely, the oilers players suck. Changing out the POHO like you suggest does absolutely nothing. This team belongs to MacT now. I also agree that Lowe shouldn't have a job anymore, but the days of him screwing the oilers with stupid decisions are long gone. Firing him would do NOTHING to change the product on the ice. People like you who do nothing but spam FIRE LOWE everywhere don't actually understand how hockey works.

Let me try and follow you here. The management brought in bad players but its not their fault because the bad players they brought in are bad? I don't understand what you're trying to say

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#44 Zarny
May 10 2014, 02:06PM
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Targeting a 1C is a good plan. O'Reilly is the better option because he's 23 and just entering his prime; Stastny is 28 and only has 2-3 more years left in his prime.

It would not be spending the D money on a C. It would be a ticket out of town for Jordan Eberle; possibly in a package for a 1D.

And that's probably the best move the Oilers could make. 30 G 70 PT RW are nothing to sneeze at, but they aren't irreplaceable.

That or the salary cap goes up a lot.

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#45 Jimmer
May 10 2014, 04:24PM
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KLowe replaces Bob Nicholson. Problem solved. Now back to the actual topic...Nuge is will be fine. A centre looks bad...really bad...if you don't have a good defence. Fix the D first please...then assess what we need at centre.

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#46 Bishai in the Benches
May 10 2014, 11:39PM
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@oilers

Holy crap.... I am FAR from a Lowe lover. I'm just saying that the results from this season are solely based upon player performance for this season, and these are MacT's players. HE needs to make the changes necessary to win. IMO Lowe doesn't have much power or say anymore. He messed up, but firing him now is simply an accountability move (still needs to happen) and won't change the team's fortunes next year unless new players are brought in.

Get good players, keep good players.

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#47 baggedmilk
May 10 2014, 10:12AM
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I like the idea of chasing a Statsny but I dread how much it would cost to get him here.

MacT dodged a bullet by having Clarkson sign in Toronto last summer, but has he learned from that? We shall see.

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#48 mike
May 10 2014, 10:12AM
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Nuge needs to rebound.

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#49 RossCreekNation
May 10 2014, 10:56AM
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Also, almost zero chance Sean Couturier is moved in PHI.

Brayden Schenn, on the other hand...

Curious how the masses would rank Sam Gagner, Josh Bailey, Colin Wilson, Nazem Kadri, Cody Hodgson, Brayden Schenn...

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#50 Sketchy
May 11 2014, 10:42AM
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What's with all the O'Reilly talk? Wasn't he a hold out? It's all about the money for him. Why would we want that in our locker room?

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