NHL DRAFT TALK WITH KYLE WOODLIEF

Jason Gregor
May 28 2014 12:26PM

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Kyle Woodlief is the chief scout and publisher of the Red Line Report. He is a former NHL scout and has been involved in the draft for years. The Red Line Report has been a very good source for the draft in the past, and I caught up with Woodlief to get his thoughts on the Memorial Cup, the Edmonton Oil Kings and the top centres in this year's draft class; Sam Bennett, Sam Reinhart and Leon Draisaitl.

My thoughts are in italics.

Gregor: Does the Memorial Cup impact the rankings very much?

Woodlief: Slightly, not that much. Guys like Robbie Fabbri, Dysin Mayo and Aaron Irving, there were a few prospects like every year, but I don't think Fabbri moves more than a spot from where he had been on our list, Mayo may move up a couple of spots and Irving might move down a few spots.

Gregor: Looking at Mayo and Irving, who do you have ranked higher and why?

Woodlief: We have Irving higher. After the first half of the season he had, right into January, was in our first round. The typical scenario for first year players in the WHL is they take a few months to get comfortable. He was the opposite. He came in and played well offensively in the first four months, but then it seemed like the coaching staff started sheltering his offensive minutes down the stretch, and he didn't produce much offensively, where as Mayo came on down the stretch. Irving was a ways ahead of him at the top of the stretch in February and March, and Mayo did close the gap, but long-term I think Irving still has more upside to his game.

Gregor: What do you like about Irving's game more than Mayo?

Woodlief: Irving is more physically active in his own end and he's a really good two-way defender. He can be part of a shut down pairing. Mayo, at this point, is more of a puck moving, finesse defender.

***Mayo was a top-four D-man for the Oil Kings throughout the playoffs, while Irving was in the 3rd pairing and didn't play nearly as much. Steve Hamilton didn't shelter Irving offensively as much as it was a case of Mayo playing better in the second half. They are different types of players, and while Irving is heavier and more aggressive, Mayo is a good skater and he thinks the game very well. It will be interesting to see which one becomes a better NHLer. I'm not as sure as Woodlief that it will be Irving.**

Gregor: Edgars Kulda was passed over last year but is ranked this year. When you are ranking players, how much does that extra year impact them?

Woodlief: Every year it seems we have more and more second and third year draft eligible players. In this particular draft year, because it is a weak year, I'm seeing on our list about 15-20% higher second and third year eligibles than there normally would be. We rank about 350 players during the course of the season and generally speaking you have about 30-35 players who are older, but this year there is about 50 of those types of players because it is a weaker draft year. You are looking for talent anywhere you can find it and guys like Kulda pop up.

The same thing happened to Kulda last year. He had a strong playoff for Edmonton, and we put him on our rankings late. I don't think we had him on our rankings all year, and then finally in April we put him on. He had a good regular season, but he came up really big in the playoffs. I'd be very surprised if he goes undrafted this year.

***He was ranked as a 4th or 5th rounder before the Memorial Cup. He might sneak into the 3rd round, but usually there isn't much of a difference between a 3rd rounder and a 4th or 5th. A lot of it will depend on how the player matures and what opportunity he is given within his NHL organization.***

Gregor: A player could have a great month or six weeks in the playoffs. Does that impact the rankings because many people value the playoffs more than the regular season?

Woodlief: You try not to get sucked in. The bottom line is it is a long grind in an NHL season, it is 80 games plus playoffs, so you want guys who can do it consistently over the course of a long season. Players in junior who aren't getting in done in the regular season,but rev it up for a couple of weeks at playoff time...It is good, it will get them on the list, and in some cases move players value up the board, but, again, you are still looking for that player who has done it over the long haul.

TOP END CENTRES...

ReinhartBennettDraisaitl

Gregor: Bennett, Reinhart, Draisaitl and Nylander are the best centres in the draft in most people's rankings. Where do you rank them from first to fourth and is there a significant drop at any point?

Woodlief: The top four grouping is Bennett, Ekblad, Reinhart and Draisaitl. Those are the top four on the board and it wouldn't surprise us if they went in any order. I tend to think that the top two players off the board will be Bennett and Ekblad, in which ever order you care to mention. I think just because of the fact that Edmonton has drafted a lot of really good players, but similar style players, who are all kind of like  Reinhart in some respect, I think if Edmonton sat still at number three and were looking for a player to take they'd be a little bit better off taking a big centre who could give you some size and strength down the middle in Draisaitl.

**Interesting that he didn't mention Nylander. I've read some reports that Florida really likes him, but I'd be shocked if they took him 1st overall. Maybe they trade down knowing they could get him later, but part of me feels the Nylander talk is a bit of a smokescreen.**

Gregor: If the rankings were out of 100, how close are Bennett, Reinhart and Draisaitl?

Woodlief: There is not a big gap at all. We have Bennett at #1 at Redline Report, because we've been really impressed with his heart and desire and that's put him over the top in our mind, but there is not a lot of a drop off from him to Reinhart and Draisaitl.

Gregor: I asked about the gap because you don't take size if the smaller player is clearly better. Are you suggesting the gap between the players is so small that in this case size would be the better option for Edmonton?

Woodlief: That would be take on the situation. They could use a big, strong centre down the middle more than they can use another player similar to what they have. I honestly think Reinhart projects better on the wing in the pros. I think he is more of a goal scorer than a play maker. He does both, don't get me wrong, but I think you can put him on the wing in the NHL with a good centre who can get him the puck he will fill up the net.

***As you know I completely agree with Woodlief. The Oilers don't need more of the same. They have an abundance of small, skilled players, so if it comes down to Reinhart and Draisaitl I take Draisaitl all day. The interesting decision would be if Ekblad and Draisaitl are both available at #3. If Ekblad becomes this year's Seth Jones and drops a few spots, I'd lean towards taking him over Draisaitl, but it would still be a tough decision. You need skilled size down the middle to win, especially in the western conference, but it would be hard to pass on Ekblad.**

Gregor: Which player do you think will go higher at the draft than people expect?

Woodlief: The one guy we really like at Redline Report over the course of the second half of the year is down in Calgary, big defenceman named Travis Sanheim. In the first half of the season in October to December you wouldn't have even noticed him, but all of a sudden in January he started taking off and he has just gotten better and better.

**Sanheim is 6' 3" and 195 pounds. He has been ranked as a late first rounder thus far, but with very few elite D-men in this year's class, a team between 15-25 might grab him if they need defensive depth.**

WRAP UP

think-positive

The good news for Oilers fans is that the Oilers biggest organizational needs are available with the 3rd pick. This team needs a right shot D-man and help at centre. In 2012, I wrote that I would have taken Alex Galchenyuk, because this team needed a big centre, and two years later I feel the same way. I'd pick Draisaitl, because I don't see Ekblad dropping to #3, but if he does then the Oilers could get a franchise right-shot D-man.

The Oilers should walk out of Philadelphia with either a big, skilled centre or an elite defender.

LAST CHANCE...

For the fourth consecutive year we are doing our Ultimate Sports Fan package in support of charity. On June 7th I am riding in the 190km MS Bike Tour, and I've come up with a pretty good package for the diehard sports fan.

How it works is you make a $100 donation and you get 1 entry. If you make a $200 donation you get two entries.

We only take 100 entries and we will raise $10,000 for MS.  The draw is Tuesday, June 3rd, and we only have 20 entries left.

This year's winner will get the following: The final package will be value at over $5,000.00

  1. A pair of tickets to the Oilers home opener in October.
  2. A pair of Edmonton Eskimos season tickets in the lower bowl.
  3. A signed, game used Ryan Nugent-Hopkins stick.
  4. 20 tickets to the Oil Kings opening night game and banner raising night. Also, you will get an Oil King of your choice to come to your backyard rink or minor hockey practice for an hour. ( Between November 1st and December 15th.)
  5. A pair of Edmonton Rush season tickets.
  6. Two VIP floor seats to MFC 41 on October 3rd. That includes dinner before the fights, and you will also get to watch the prelims at ringside with the MFC broadcast team.
  7. The Nation's own Jason Strudwick and one of his former NHL friends will play a game with your Men's League team next season. Struds will bring the beer, a few good stories and some shootout moves.
  8. Four infield passes to the Canadian Derby on Saturday August 16th.
  9. Pizza for a year (1 pizza a week) from Papa Johns Pizza. When you want to watch the big games Papa Johns will ensure you have great pizza.

**Edit...THANK YOU. We sold out yesterday, it took less than a week. Awesome.***

Recently by Jason Gregor:

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#101 Zarny
May 29 2014, 03:05PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

I agree to a point. I have never said that size doesn't matter. Often it does because it is what helps make a certain player better than another.

I disagree with the suggestion that one of your top 2 centers must weight more than 205 in order to win. If a 5'11, 190lb player is better than a 6'3 220lb player you don't take the 6'3 player because he is bigger.

The other part of the list of players you mentioned is that besides being big they are awesome at hockey.

Also awesome at hockey: a whole bunch of other centers who do not weight a minimum of 205.

I've noticed a lot of other people listing Handzus as a key top 6 center over 205, but the guy is playing about 13 minutes a game. Those are not top 6 minutes and well short of both Kruger and Shaw.

I think for the most part we agree. A couple of things though.

Neither Reinhart nor Bennett are considered to better than Draisaitl by any significant measure. They aren't Crosby or Tavares etc. So this draft is not a situation where the 5'11" 190lb player is better than the 6'3" 220 lb player. They basically all have the same skill level but scouts really like Bennett's "heart".

I stated having one of your two C weigh more than 205 lb is not an absolute; but your top 6 F has to include some size/strength because you have to create offense in different ways to win the Stanley Cup.

Since the Oilers literally have none and half their divisional and conference rivals do at C the logical position to add size/strength for the Oilers is C. Especially when one of their two C is considered to be on the outs and they have no size on the W.

If (when) LA or Chi win the Cup this year 8 of the last 10 Stanley Cup champions will have had a big C that was an awesome hockey player. That's a fairly obvious trend.

Pointing to the 2 oddballs who were successful with behemoths on the W, Selke caliber C and Norris trophy winning D doesn't help the Oilers much considering they have none of that. By all means though, if MacT can add Bergeron, Lucic, Simmonds and Subban it could be a winning formula.

And yes, we're talking about big players that are awesome at hockey. That is what the expectation of Draisaitl would be. How good only time will tell but no one is talking about adding a pylon just for size.

Handzus is a red-herring. They all play behind Toews who is 6'2" 208 lbs AND plays bigger.

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#102 Zarny
May 29 2014, 03:17PM
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madjam wrote:

Not sure having two Hopkins type would be detrimental to our future - might even be the most advantageous . Do not agree with your assessment of Reinhart .

I said the top 4 player that benefits the Oilers the least is Reinhart not that the Oilers don't benefit at all.

The Oilers top 6 F are too much of the same. Reinhart literally does nothing to change that. At least Bennett plays with intensity. Draisaitl offers a complimentary size difference. Reinhart gives you exactly what you already have with Nuge. That is the least beneficial to the Oilers.

Conversely, Draisaitl benefits Florida the least since they already have Barkov. Winning is always about the right mix of players.

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#103 TigerUnderGlass
May 29 2014, 04:09PM
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Zarny wrote:

I think for the most part we agree. A couple of things though.

Neither Reinhart nor Bennett are considered to better than Draisaitl by any significant measure. They aren't Crosby or Tavares etc. So this draft is not a situation where the 5'11" 190lb player is better than the 6'3" 220 lb player. They basically all have the same skill level but scouts really like Bennett's "heart".

I stated having one of your two C weigh more than 205 lb is not an absolute; but your top 6 F has to include some size/strength because you have to create offense in different ways to win the Stanley Cup.

Since the Oilers literally have none and half their divisional and conference rivals do at C the logical position to add size/strength for the Oilers is C. Especially when one of their two C is considered to be on the outs and they have no size on the W.

If (when) LA or Chi win the Cup this year 8 of the last 10 Stanley Cup champions will have had a big C that was an awesome hockey player. That's a fairly obvious trend.

Pointing to the 2 oddballs who were successful with behemoths on the W, Selke caliber C and Norris trophy winning D doesn't help the Oilers much considering they have none of that. By all means though, if MacT can add Bergeron, Lucic, Simmonds and Subban it could be a winning formula.

And yes, we're talking about big players that are awesome at hockey. That is what the expectation of Draisaitl would be. How good only time will tell but no one is talking about adding a pylon just for size.

Handzus is a red-herring. They all play behind Toews who is 6'2" 208 lbs AND plays bigger.

I agree about the kids in this draft. I have no idea who's better. I'm not at all against drafting Draisaitl, (notice I've never suggested drafting anyone else would be better) I just don't want the decision to be made because of his weight. If they think he is the best player they should take him.

I know you didn't make the statement about the top 6 centers, it was Gregor, and it was his comment I have been disagreeing with all along.

Handzus wasn't my red herring it was a bunch of others who brought him up. At one point I noticed him hilariously on a list with Getzlaf, Kopitar, Carter, and Toews. I like Handzus fine, but come on.

We seem to be part of a fan base that would happily trade Eberle for Clarkson and then wonder why the team never improves.

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#104 TigerUnderGlass
May 29 2014, 04:21PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

"NOBODY has ever said lets get a bunch of small guys. The issue is one of focus. I want to focus on good, you want to focus on big."

Go re-read the article. Read it very slow. Woodlief and other scouts say their is virtually NO DIFFERENCE in skill between the centres. The one difference Draisaitl has is size.

"Size is important. If things are equal or close you would lean to size." Stu MacGregor.

Draisaitl is not a bad player. He is rated as a top-four draft pick. You are the only one suggesting he is not good.

You do this every time we disagree. You are never willing to argue the point. Show me where I said Draisaitl is not good.

You just quoted me and then made some random argument that has nothing to do with the line you quoted. Context matters. Great points, too bad it's obvious to anyone who read my comments that I don't disagree with them.

I have NEVER said he shouldn't be picked. Multiple times on this very thread I have stated specifically that I have no idea who is the best or who should be drafted.

I disagree with your statement that a team cannot win unless one of their top 2 centers weighs at least 205 and I disagree that a player should be taken because he weighs more. That is all.

Knock down all the straw men you want, just let me know when you decide to address something actually said so I can join back in.

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#105 TigerUnderGlass
May 29 2014, 04:31PM
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@Jason Gregor

You were awfully condescending about Montreal and Eller earlier.

Did you have a snappy response for me or are you still deciding which fallacious argument you will attribute to me?

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#107 Peter
May 29 2014, 05:07PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

You were awfully condescending about Montreal and Eller earlier.

Did you have a snappy response for me or are you still deciding which fallacious argument you will attribute to me?

What a whiner. I'm amazed Gregor even responds to your drivel. All you do is whine and complain, and now you accuse someone of being condescending. Shut up please.

I noticed the Nation got rid of DSF...I nominate getting rid of you next. Waste of reader space.

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#108 tigerunderglass
May 29 2014, 08:40PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Show me where I said I want big that isn't skilled?

You won't, so you try to create an argument. Draisaitl is very skilled, and when scouts say the difference in skill is virtually nothing, then Oilers should look at getting a skilled guy with size. Simple.

He is big and skilled, so he is what they need more than another small, skilled centre. Simple. Teams that win have skill with size. Every team has some of it. Oilers have none at this point.

I never accused you of saying that, nor of anything close.

I disagreed with one thing. You said a team has to have a top 2 center over a certain weight and said that isn't necessarily true.

You have now gone so far from that as to say I'm arguing against Draisaitl in a thread where I have repeatedly said I have no issue with picking him.

I didn't think my position was that controversial but there are people here who lose their minds anytime someone disagrees with you.

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#109 TigerUnderGlass
May 29 2014, 08:52PM
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@Peter

What comes closer to meeting the definition of whining, arguing about hockey or complaining about the guy arguing about hockey? You'll notice you were also the first to resort to a personal attack in a hockey discussion.

I suspect that I've been around here a lot longer than you have, and I think even Gregor, whom I have hounded a bit today on here, would tell you there is a big difference between DSF and myself. Gregor's a big boy who can hold his own.

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#110 HOCKEY VIKING
May 30 2014, 04:03AM
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I cannot help but think that the Oiler Brass have some surprises in store at this draft. Clearly they need to somehow acquire both Second and Third Round draft picks-using existing players as possible bait. Also their European scouting has not been mentioned in depth. I feel THE OIL may have discovered a few more sleepers on the European Draft Lists. Comments?

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#111 TigerUnderGlass
May 30 2014, 08:18AM
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HOCKEY VIKING wrote:

I cannot help but think that the Oiler Brass have some surprises in store at this draft. Clearly they need to somehow acquire both Second and Third Round draft picks-using existing players as possible bait. Also their European scouting has not been mentioned in depth. I feel THE OIL may have discovered a few more sleepers on the European Draft Lists. Comments?

It's a nice thought, but I suspect if they weren't able to replace those picks at the deadline it will be even harder at the draft.

Finding draft surprises is getting harder and harder to do as well, but a couple of late round steals would do wonders for this team.

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