PRIDE PARADE 2014: FERENCE STEPS UP

Robin Brownlee
June 07 2014 11:21AM

AndrewFerence

It goes without saying, or most certainly should, that people should not be judged based on the color of their skin, their ethnicity, their religion or their sexual orientation. Unfortunately, we aren't there yet.

That's what makes Andrew Ference's decision to March in Edmonton's Pride Parade in support of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans-gender community (LGBT) today so commendable.

In a world that has yet to fully come to grips with accepting people for who they are, the captain of the Edmonton Oilers is stepping forward as a man who performs in a fraternity that struggles as much or more as any segment of our society with male sexuality.

When a player, Ference, who makes his living playing a tough game against tough men in the NHL chooses to participate in a parade celebrating diversity, it's still newsworthy. One need only type "Edmonton Pride Parade 2014" into Google's search engine to know that – six of the first 10 results I got this morning were in reference to Ference taking part.

It is news. I look forward to the day when it's not.

MAKING A STATEMENT

ference

Even today, acceptance of sexual orientation is far from universal, be it here in Edmonton or anywhere else. Are we making progress? Absolutely, as a 55-year-old man who is old enough to remember a very different era when attitudes toward race, religion and sexual orientation – mine included – were different, I can say that with confidence.

It's also obvious, given the mistreatment of others that still makes headlines on a daily basis somewhere, old attitudes remain today in varying degrees. In my neighborhood. In your neighborhood. Certainly in the culture of the NHL. It is news, then, when Ference takes part, becoming the first member of the Oilers to do so.

Jen Scrivens, wife of Oiler goaltender Ben Scrivens, will march today. Former Oiler Georges Laraque has marched in Montreal. Manny Malhotra and Jason Garrison have marched in Vancouver. In 2011, Sean Avery came out in favor of equal marriage rights in New York. Brian Burke has marched. Burke's son Patrick started the You Can Play initiative in 2012 after brother Brendan died in an automobile accident in 2010.

"Making sure that (LGBT) youth know they have allies at the pro level, or whether it’s a teammate who might be thinking about coming out, or whatever it is, we want to make sure that it’s an accepting environment for everyone," Ference told the Edmonton Journal. "I know most of my teammates and guys around the league line up with the same kind of belief."

LEADING THE WAY

lead-by-example

Yes, most but not all. In that, the NHL is no different than the rest of society. My neighborhood. Your neighborhood. For all of the progress made since I was a kid growing up in the 1960s and 70s, for how we more often embrace our brothers and sisters for what they are rather than what we think they should be, we still have a long way to go.

Players like Andrew Ference will help get us there. That's what leaders do.

Listen to Robin Brownlee Wednesdays and Thursdays from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. on the Jason Gregor Show on TEAM 1260.

Aceb4a1816f5fa09879a023b07d1a9b4
A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.
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#101 HardBoiledOil
June 08 2014, 09:59AM
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hemi wrote:

I agree with this. More of the same is not what we need. I am nothing like the hockey minded folks whom pour over hockey stats and etc to enable them to critique minor differences of up and coming players. One sure fire outcome of the draft is that some of the leather lungs in this city and this site will undoubtedly pick the crap apart of whom finally lands as the newest Oiler.

sometimes it's almost like it's hard to believe and too good to be true that an actual big, talented center may actually be sitting there for us to take, that we may actually be able to take a player to fill a huge hole and not be stuck with a Yakupov 2.0 player, which we don't need.

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#102 Wax Man Riley
June 08 2014, 10:02AM
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This discussions reminds me of this picture:

http://cdn.hellogiggles.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/09/interracial1-249x480.jpg

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#103 Oilers4ever
June 08 2014, 10:03AM
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werewolf wrote:

Wow, what is wrong with people today, always some group hijacking olympics, sports events, important events to promote their sexuality, religion, color, please give it a rest. This is about the Stanley Cup playoffs, not some cheap advertising to say that i am gay, straight, black, blue, purple, white, brown, race. You want to make a difference in the world then do something about the 21,000 children dying every day. Education of the world's 775 million illiterate adults. 7.6 million people die from cancer worldwide every year. Many more diseases, drug wars and violence, people killed from wars.

You people want to advertise, or make your political statement then put your money or support where you mouth is and donate or support the real problems of today and if you dont know what i mean then let me help you. example: the gay pride society donated 1 million dollars to the the children in somalia or muslim faith donated 10 million dollars to the illiterate society. Or better yet 10,000 people from the gay pride or SPCA society volunteered their time and money to help the children of india, somalia, brazil, etc. Robin, andrew ferrence or whatever celebrate or athlete who decides to make headlines, why dont you help the children of today so that their future helps change the world of tomorrow. Racism, bullying, hatred, war, disease, famine. You know what makes me sick, that some football athlete, or hockey player, or the miserable phone solicitor or tv advertisement showing this poor dog or kitten in a cage, or some athlete coming out about his sexual preference, or some religious fanatic or gunman get front page News. where some 21000 children die each day, or the billion children starving to death. That's how you promote you group or society or whatever the hell your idealogy is. This is about the oilers or the Stanley Cup and thats why i like reading oilersnation. If you want to talk about something political, take it to a forum, paper, talk show or better yet do something about the real problems of the world otherwise stay on topic

HOCKEY, STANLEY CUP PLAYOFFS, OILERS, TRADES, DRAFT. MESSIER, GRETZKY, REXALL PLACE, 2014 - 2015 NHL SEASON

Well said sir. Everyone has their right to believe in what they want, their own sexuality, etc. BUT there are far bigger issues in this great world of ours that need to be dealt with.

Way to go Kings for coming back last night. I'm sticking with Kings in 5 even if Quick looks nothing like a Vezina winner these playoffs.

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#104 Loweblows
June 08 2014, 10:04AM
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The only parade Ference will see in edmonton

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#105 book¡e
June 08 2014, 10:36AM
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Does anyone else see the idiocy in people who spend time discussing hockey chastising people who spend time pushing for GLBT rights for wasting their time not solving world hunger?

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#106 book¡e
June 08 2014, 10:51AM
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Oilers4ever wrote:

Well said sir. Everyone has their right to believe in what they want, their own sexuality, etc. BUT there are far bigger issues in this great world of ours that need to be dealt with.

Way to go Kings for coming back last night. I'm sticking with Kings in 5 even if Quick looks nothing like a Vezina winner these playoffs.

Things to do today.

1. Tell people who spend their time fighting for social justice and fairness that they shouldn't be wasting their time doing so, but rather should be using that time to address issues of poverty and world hunger.

2. Spend time talking about the hockey game I spent time watching last night.

3. If I have time, do something about world hunger and poverty (not likely).

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#107 werewolf
June 08 2014, 11:02AM
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hahaha

the soup facist, zarney, bookje, oiler gthat unretired, haiku w, dobbler.

perfect example of people who hijack or troll topics because their lives are incomplete.

I don't care what what you believe, or what sex you like, or race you are. I grew up in a community where many of my friends were of different Ethnic backgrounds and our neighbors of 9 years are female life partners (their words not mine) are very respectable persons, down to earth and friendly. 95% of all these people(in canada) go through life with very few problems. You know why? Because they work hard, raise their children, or support their families, support their charities or societies. They don't jump up and down crying that they are special and they want the world to see them. I understand there is hatred, racism, and other big problems in this world. Remember where you came from, the very people who are straight came together and had a child. Their parents before them and before them and so on and the fathers of these generations fought for your very freedoms you are talking about. So before you paint every straight person with the same brush. remember where you came from. We have all our own opinions and because most of the world who are straight believe what they believe, you dare say their are hateful, ignorant, scared, or look the other way. You very ignorance of real life is distorted by the very hate you talk about. You want to change the world then support the children who by the way are created by 1 man and 1 woman. Actions speak greater than anything. I don't force my life down your throat, so don't try to force yours down mine or make excuses why you have to.

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#108 Joe Mamma
June 08 2014, 11:07AM
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book¡e wrote:

Things to do today.

1. Tell people who spend their time fighting for social justice and fairness that they shouldn't be wasting their time doing so, but rather should be using that time to address issues of poverty and world hunger.

2. Spend time talking about the hockey game I spent time watching last night.

3. If I have time, do something about world hunger and poverty (not likely).

Well said sir.

This argument that "because there are starving children in Africa, we should talk about something else" is just a nice way of telling LGBT rights supporters to shut up. Persecution, ostracism, ridicule and violence towards gays/lesbians/transgendered/etc has made this a serious issue with global implications, that is worthy of discussion and debate. Because it doesn't appeal to your tender sensibilities doesn't make it less so.

If discussion of gay rights makes you uncomfortable, maybe you should read a different article.

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#109 Joe Mamma
June 08 2014, 11:17AM
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werewolf wrote:

hahaha

the soup facist, zarney, bookje, oiler gthat unretired, haiku w, dobbler.

perfect example of people who hijack or troll topics because their lives are incomplete.

I don't care what what you believe, or what sex you like, or race you are. I grew up in a community where many of my friends were of different Ethnic backgrounds and our neighbors of 9 years are female life partners (their words not mine) are very respectable persons, down to earth and friendly. 95% of all these people(in canada) go through life with very few problems. You know why? Because they work hard, raise their children, or support their families, support their charities or societies. They don't jump up and down crying that they are special and they want the world to see them. I understand there is hatred, racism, and other big problems in this world. Remember where you came from, the very people who are straight came together and had a child. Their parents before them and before them and so on and the fathers of these generations fought for your very freedoms you are talking about. So before you paint every straight person with the same brush. remember where you came from. We have all our own opinions and because most of the world who are straight believe what they believe, you dare say their are hateful, ignorant, scared, or look the other way. You very ignorance of real life is distorted by the very hate you talk about. You want to change the world then support the children who by the way are created by 1 man and 1 woman. Actions speak greater than anything. I don't force my life down your throat, so don't try to force yours down mine or make excuses why you have to.

I'm straight, and I don't believe what you believe. So don't lump all straight people in with your belief system. No one told you you aren't entitled to your beliefs. This diatribe you just wrote is bigotry with window dressing. If you don't want anyone to call you on it, then keep your opinions to yourself. You put them out on a public forum, they're open to dissent.

Or as Confucius says, "a closed mouth collects no feet."

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#110 book¡e
June 08 2014, 11:27AM
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werewolf wrote:

hahaha

the soup facist, zarney, bookje, oiler gthat unretired, haiku w, dobbler.

perfect example of people who hijack or troll topics because their lives are incomplete.

I don't care what what you believe, or what sex you like, or race you are. I grew up in a community where many of my friends were of different Ethnic backgrounds and our neighbors of 9 years are female life partners (their words not mine) are very respectable persons, down to earth and friendly. 95% of all these people(in canada) go through life with very few problems. You know why? Because they work hard, raise their children, or support their families, support their charities or societies. They don't jump up and down crying that they are special and they want the world to see them. I understand there is hatred, racism, and other big problems in this world. Remember where you came from, the very people who are straight came together and had a child. Their parents before them and before them and so on and the fathers of these generations fought for your very freedoms you are talking about. So before you paint every straight person with the same brush. remember where you came from. We have all our own opinions and because most of the world who are straight believe what they believe, you dare say their are hateful, ignorant, scared, or look the other way. You very ignorance of real life is distorted by the very hate you talk about. You want to change the world then support the children who by the way are created by 1 man and 1 woman. Actions speak greater than anything. I don't force my life down your throat, so don't try to force yours down mine or make excuses why you have to.

I do support the children who are created by one man and one women. The difference between you and I is that I choose to support ALL of them.

Seriously, confident ignoramuses like yourself are THE biggest single problem in society. With a lack of any level of critical thinking you push forward your views regardless of their inherent logical fallacies that are so evident to any competent reader.

Your response to this will be to self confidently laugh in self assuring superiority. You are right, you are sure of it. Don't bother spending 5 minutes thinking about it, no sense in bothering to do so when you are so certain.

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#111 MattL
June 08 2014, 11:31AM
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Fresh Mess wrote:

It's terrifying that you actually think this way. Not only does everyone have to agree with you, but they can't remain silent? Unreal.

Not everyone feels the need to be seen/heard grandstanding with pious public statements. I know your generation has been brainwashed by the media and school system, but some are still capable of independent thought.

For all you "stop ramming your differences down my throat" people, spend the next couple of weeks taking mental note of every time a straight person tells you about how they're attracted to someone of the opposite sex, or kisses their partner in public, or tells you a story about picking up chicks at the bar, etc...

Likely you never complain about the thousands of time hetero people are openly hetero because it's not different from you.

And for "I don't need to see them in skimpy overtly sexual clothing dancing around in public" guy, have you ever been out on Whyte Ave. on Halloween? It's straight pride parade all over the place...

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#112 book¡e
June 08 2014, 11:33AM
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Striker wrote:

I'd also recommend Ha-Joon Chang, adding to your list of development theorists.

Ference's leadership and participation in the community has been stellar since being named Captain. Bravo mon capitan.

Wow, lots of people trashing your comment. It appears that Ha-Joon Chang is not popular here. I suspect that is is because his work is too reminiscent of dependency theory where blame is directed solely at forces external to the local population and it exaggerates the limits of agency (and thus responsibility) of those in developing nations themselves.

Perhaps the 'Trashers' can clarify?

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#113 Oil Al
June 08 2014, 11:43AM
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Even Brian Burke marched in the Toronto parade! People having varying reason for showing support for whatever they choose. Its a free world. Who are we to judge.

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#114 TonyT
June 08 2014, 11:47AM
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The world we live in will always have people of differing opinions, it's what makes each of us unique. Being truly "tolerant", means (not necessarily agreeing with but at least) having respect for all opinions. How can one claim to be "more accepting" than another when whomever disagrees with their or public opinion is an "idiot" or a "Neanderthal"?

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#115 Racki
June 08 2014, 11:50AM
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Sarcasm on...

I'm so tired of walking down the street and having people come up to me and yell in my face "I'm gay!!", or seeing gay couples having sex on top of cars while I'm out driving. Not to mention that time I went to the book store, and all I saw were gay novels.

Sarcasm off..

There is no "shoving down our throats" here. People talking about something or celebrating something to gain awareness and acceptance is not shoving it down my throat. I don't believe that if someone who's battling alcoholism and goes to AA to help deal with it with others is shoving it down my throat. I don't believe that seeing Christmas decorations at the mall, when I'm not religious, is shoving Christmas down my throat. I don't believe that people having their pride parade is shoving it down my throat.

A little pro-tip for those who are completely overwhelmed by this... there's a red X up in the top right corner you can click if there's too much political agenda being rammed down your throat.

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#116 Joe Mamma
June 08 2014, 11:58AM
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MattL wrote:

For all you "stop ramming your differences down my throat" people, spend the next couple of weeks taking mental note of every time a straight person tells you about how they're attracted to someone of the opposite sex, or kisses their partner in public, or tells you a story about picking up chicks at the bar, etc...

Likely you never complain about the thousands of time hetero people are openly hetero because it's not different from you.

And for "I don't need to see them in skimpy overtly sexual clothing dancing around in public" guy, have you ever been out on Whyte Ave. on Halloween? It's straight pride parade all over the place...

Hey, agreed. But no one brings their kids down to whyte on Halloween night to watch the show. I'm not saying the dress or grinding bothers me in the slightest. But it's still crass and does nothing to further equality or awareness of LGBT issues. For many, it's just an opportunity to party with their pants off. And all I'm saying is it's tough to take a person seriously on a serious issue when they're running around in a mankini and Angel wings, dig?

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#117 pelhem grenville
June 08 2014, 12:01PM
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werewolf wrote:

Wow, what is wrong with people today, always some group hijacking olympics, sports events, important events to promote their sexuality, religion, color, please give it a rest. This is about the Stanley Cup playoffs, not some cheap advertising to say that i am gay, straight, black, blue, purple, white, brown, race. You want to make a difference in the world then do something about the 21,000 children dying every day. Education of the world's 775 million illiterate adults. 7.6 million people die from cancer worldwide every year. Many more diseases, drug wars and violence, people killed from wars.

You people want to advertise, or make your political statement then put your money or support where you mouth is and donate or support the real problems of today and if you dont know what i mean then let me help you. example: the gay pride society donated 1 million dollars to the the children in somalia or muslim faith donated 10 million dollars to the illiterate society. Or better yet 10,000 people from the gay pride or SPCA society volunteered their time and money to help the children of india, somalia, brazil, etc. Robin, andrew ferrence or whatever celebrate or athlete who decides to make headlines, why dont you help the children of today so that their future helps change the world of tomorrow. Racism, bullying, hatred, war, disease, famine. You know what makes me sick, that some football athlete, or hockey player, or the miserable phone solicitor or tv advertisement showing this poor dog or kitten in a cage, or some athlete coming out about his sexual preference, or some religious fanatic or gunman get front page News. where some 21000 children die each day, or the billion children starving to death. That's how you promote you group or society or whatever the hell your idealogy is. This is about the oilers or the Stanley Cup and thats why i like reading oilersnation. If you want to talk about something political, take it to a forum, paper, talk show or better yet do something about the real problems of the world otherwise stay on topic

HOCKEY, STANLEY CUP PLAYOFFS, OILERS, TRADES, DRAFT. MESSIER, GRETZKY, REXALL PLACE, 2014 - 2015 NHL SEASON

Question...why would my comment be pulled when I replied to this ?

...and for manfly ...strange and you get 8 cheers and 3 trashes seemingly defending my 3 words...this bunch on here is fickle...but entertainingly so...I still think Draisaitl should be taken number 3 overall if he's available... AND I think he can do more pullups than Bennett

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#118 Racki
June 08 2014, 12:12PM
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Joe Mamma wrote:

Hey, agreed. But no one brings their kids down to whyte on Halloween night to watch the show. I'm not saying the dress or grinding bothers me in the slightest. But it's still crass and does nothing to further equality or awareness of LGBT issues. For many, it's just an opportunity to party with their pants off. And all I'm saying is it's tough to take a person seriously on a serious issue when they're running around in a mankini and Angel wings, dig?

In all honesty, I've never been to one of these parades (although I'm planning on going next year with my wife to show support), just seen from a distance in my office building. I've heard things get quite risque in places like Toronto, unsure about here. At any rate, I think while I'm very pro-LGBT rights, it isn't helping their cause at all if there's too much skin and sexuality for people of any age and sexuality to feel comfortable there.

But I'll see first hand for myself next year how over the top it is. I don't speak from experience, but I have my doubts that 100% of the people at these are walking down the street grab-as$ing, and wearing next to nothing. So it's probably a smaller amount of people that make the message tough to be received. SO I think for a lot of people, the parade is about awareness and acceptance, but there are some that treat it as "omg, gay people buffet!"

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#119 Fresh Mess
June 08 2014, 12:57PM
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MattL wrote:

For all you "stop ramming your differences down my throat" people, spend the next couple of weeks taking mental note of every time a straight person tells you about how they're attracted to someone of the opposite sex, or kisses their partner in public, or tells you a story about picking up chicks at the bar, etc...

Likely you never complain about the thousands of time hetero people are openly hetero because it's not different from you.

And for "I don't need to see them in skimpy overtly sexual clothing dancing around in public" guy, have you ever been out on Whyte Ave. on Halloween? It's straight pride parade all over the place...

I'm perplexed what this has to do with my comment.

Your imagination seems to have constructed a profile of my views.

Quite the leap, but whatever helps reinforce your tidy 'me so good' world view, I guess.

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#120 Joe Mamma
June 08 2014, 01:03PM
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Racki wrote:

In all honesty, I've never been to one of these parades (although I'm planning on going next year with my wife to show support), just seen from a distance in my office building. I've heard things get quite risque in places like Toronto, unsure about here. At any rate, I think while I'm very pro-LGBT rights, it isn't helping their cause at all if there's too much skin and sexuality for people of any age and sexuality to feel comfortable there.

But I'll see first hand for myself next year how over the top it is. I don't speak from experience, but I have my doubts that 100% of the people at these are walking down the street grab-as$ing, and wearing next to nothing. So it's probably a smaller amount of people that make the message tough to be received. SO I think for a lot of people, the parade is about awareness and acceptance, but there are some that treat it as "omg, gay people buffet!"

My wife's best friend is a lesbian, and we've gone to the previous 3 pride parades in support (didn't attend this year due to prior commitments). And I'm here to tell you it is largely pretty risque, and not age appropriate for young children. Like I said, it doesn't bother me in the slightest, but I'm am adult and can understand what I'm seeing. I just think if the sexual and nightlife aspects are going to be on display, jasper ave at midday maybe isn't the most appropriate venue. I wouldn't bring the kiddies to bourbon street during mardi gras either.

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#121 D
June 08 2014, 01:05PM
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Thanks for this RB. I've seen the changes in attitudes (mine included) over the last several decades.

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#122 MattL
June 08 2014, 01:09PM
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Joe Mamma wrote:

Hey, agreed. But no one brings their kids down to whyte on Halloween night to watch the show. I'm not saying the dress or grinding bothers me in the slightest. But it's still crass and does nothing to further equality or awareness of LGBT issues. For many, it's just an opportunity to party with their pants off. And all I'm saying is it's tough to take a person seriously on a serious issue when they're running around in a mankini and Angel wings, dig?

like Racki said, I don't think the pride parade here is the hedonistic grind-fest you've made it out to be in your head. If you think nobody should be allowed to wear bathing suits in public and kiss each other, that's fine. You might need to avoid every movie and music video ever made, and vote for religious extremist political parties, but that's all totally your right and prerogative.

I just have a problem with anyone who wants people to have different rights or get different treatment because of sex, skin colour, or orientation. And I think if you really do some soul searching here you might realize that you're just trying to avoid something you're uncomfortable with. Doesn't mean you're a bad person, it happens. that's why these parades exist, to make us straights comfortable with the idea that non-straights enjoy all the same things we do, just with different people combos.

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#123 MattL
June 08 2014, 01:16PM
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@Joe Mamma

Apologies for assuming you've never been to the parade here. If it's too risqué for you that's fine. I just hope you keep your critiques of public affection up for hetero displays too. I do get where you're coming from though. Lots of people who make your argument really only have a problem with the same sex part.

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#124 Mike Wazowski
June 08 2014, 01:17PM
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@Robin Brownlee

These types of articles are important.

When I first started reading it, I was of the opinion that some others on here have expressed. "I'm straight, you're not. Don't care because it doesn't bother me either way. Why does the LGBT community need a parade?" I do my best to treat people as they treat others: with fairness, honesty and compassion.

I knew the facts but it connected for me after reading the comments... there are those in the LGBT community who have been bullied, both emotionally and physically. There are those who feel alone, desperate and even suicidal.

An event like this is an important way for everyone to reach out to those that are hurting because of the prejudice surrounding the LGBT community and let them know that they're not alone.

Thank you Robin.

Thank you Andrew Ference, for setting an important example.

And thank you OilersNation.

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#125 Joe Mamma
June 08 2014, 01:27PM
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MattL wrote:

like Racki said, I don't think the pride parade here is the hedonistic grind-fest you've made it out to be in your head. If you think nobody should be allowed to wear bathing suits in public and kiss each other, that's fine. You might need to avoid every movie and music video ever made, and vote for religious extremist political parties, but that's all totally your right and prerogative.

I just have a problem with anyone who wants people to have different rights or get different treatment because of sex, skin colour, or orientation. And I think if you really do some soul searching here you might realize that you're just trying to avoid something you're uncomfortable with. Doesn't mean you're a bad person, it happens. that's why these parades exist, to make us straights comfortable with the idea that non-straights enjoy all the same things we do, just with different people combos.

Hahaha what part of "I have been to 3 pride parades" do you not understand? How many have you gone to? And to suggest that because I think that partial nudity and bumping and grinding in front of little children is not conducive to spreading a message of tolerance and equality means I am a right wing nut is laughable. How many Saturday nights have you spent sitting in Buddy's (a gay nightclub downtown, for those who don't know) drinking and dancing with gay and lesbian friends? My guess would be none, whereas my wife and I go often. Makes me uncomfortable? , I think not. Trust me what you see at buddy's makes anything at pride seem like Sunday school. You are the person being intolerant and judgemental here buddy, not me. I don't agree with debauchery in front of little kids, so I'm a religious right-wing zealot? Nope, I just have some morals. Sorry if that offends you.

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#126 Joe Mamma
June 08 2014, 01:51PM
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MattL wrote:

Apologies for assuming you've never been to the parade here. If it's too risqué for you that's fine. I just hope you keep your critiques of public affection up for hetero displays too. I do get where you're coming from though. Lots of people who make your argument really only have a problem with the same sex part.

Keep going bud, you're on a roll. Maybe you can find somebody to lend you a third foot to cram in your mouth.

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#127 Oilers need Ogie Ogilthorpe!
June 08 2014, 01:53PM
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@werewolf

Just curious, Werewolf: what would your neighbors of 9 years think about your two long posts? Would they agree that "95% of all these people go through life with very few problems"? Would they side with you, that the pride parade is not a way to "support the real problems of today"? Or that fighting for equality and tolerance for the LGBT is not a way to "make a real difference in the world"?

I believe there's room for intelligent, productive debate that offers a contrary opinion to the (recently) popular point of view that being gay is normal. I just hope you can see that anyone looking for intelligent and productive ideas is better off skipping your posts!

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#128 MattL
June 08 2014, 01:54PM
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@Fresh Mess

I think I was going to respond to your comment but wrote something else instead. Wasn't actually directed at you. Sorry.

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#129 MattL
June 08 2014, 02:12PM
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Joe Mamma wrote:

Keep going bud, you're on a roll. Maybe you can find somebody to lend you a third foot to cram in your mouth.

Alright, clearly you're a good person. Just saying, lots of people who make your argument are coming from a different place and don't want to admit it to themselves. I assume you know what I mean. So you're not like that. congrats. I'd we were friends I'd buy you a beer for unfairly lumping you in with other people, happy?

I don't agree with every protest method either, so I get it, but it's a free world, if someone thinks that's what they have to do to avoid or lessen persecution, have at'er.

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#130 Oilers need Ogie Ogilthorpe!
June 08 2014, 02:18PM
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JSR wrote:

My point is...I don't run around saying, "look at me, I'm straight, I'm straight." Why can't people just take people for who they are, gay or straight? I don't think a parade is needed, in either case, straight or gay.

I think it's always tough to understand another point of view without having experienced it. I support your message about accepting people for who they are, gay or straight.

I don't really know anything about you, so I'll use myself as an example instead. I'm a 35 year old, English speaking white male, with a wife and a job as a professional.. Every day life is a tribute to me, as a member of the dominant culture in Canada (much like the US). Movies, tv shows, commercials, ads on bus benches... Most of it validates me and my straight lifestyle.

But... What happens when two gay parents go to parent teacher interviews for their child? What happens when I'm drinking with my buddies, and the bar isn't showing hockey, and someone says 'that's gay'? What happens when a teacher shows a video about family in first grade, and they portray only straight couples? None of that makes me feel bad, because I'm straight, and on every level, society says that's ok. Moreover, society says that's normal and expected.

But how does a person feel in these situations if they are gay? Do same-sex parents get judged by teachers or other parents? Certainly not always, but even once or twice is more than I'll ever have to deal with. Something bad at the bar? Let's express how crappy it is by using the word that defines people who are different. That must feel good. What's that Billy? No, you drew your family wrong - there should be a dad AND a mom in your family portrait.

Acceptance is great, and important, but when different demographics are invalidated, it affects those people.

It sounds like you, personally, are an accepting person. I commend you for that. I just wonder if there are reasons you don't see, why a parade (or some other such event) are still important.

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#131 Joe Mamma
June 08 2014, 02:31PM
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MattL wrote:

Alright, clearly you're a good person. Just saying, lots of people who make your argument are coming from a different place and don't want to admit it to themselves. I assume you know what I mean. So you're not like that. congrats. I'd we were friends I'd buy you a beer for unfairly lumping you in with other people, happy?

I don't agree with every protest method either, so I get it, but it's a free world, if someone thinks that's what they have to do to avoid or lessen persecution, have at'er.

Yep got you now. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and belief system, as long as it agrees with yours. And stereotyping isn't ok, unless you do it. Got it.

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#132 werewolf
June 08 2014, 04:29PM
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joe momma hahaha classic 5% hater, your the type that thinks because people don't support a movement that they must be a bigot or racist. I bet dollars to donuts if you don't get a job its because someone must have been against you instead of you not having the qualifications. you know what's funny, their are many societies or movements that had great intentions to start with then you get the fanatical wacko's. Anybody who lumps the shriners, halloween, as straight parades only proves their ignorance. Just so you know there just as many racists, bigots, bullies in minorities, try living in their cultures and you would know what i mean. You want to Promote Equality, then do it right and be proud of it. But don't let the radicals control it or speak for you because you don't want the heat on you. Most people will judge you on what your actions are, don't let the bigots like the L.A. clippers owner paint everybody with the same brush. The 5% of the pride movement that Bump and grind and making lude acts does not promote equality but leaves an impression on the rest who watch on the news or read in the papers a bad impression. Just like Trolls like you and some of the others here who post crap and talk out the side of their mouths. try growing up being metis' where your not wanted by either side.

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#133 MattL
June 08 2014, 04:55PM
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Joe Mamma wrote:

Yep got you now. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and belief system, as long as it agrees with yours. And stereotyping isn't ok, unless you do it. Got it.

yep, you understood what I was saying fully. haha. I'm saying people should be able to express themselves freely in whatever way they choose, you think they should do it your way, and I'm the one who wants to censor people. Nailed it.

Anyway, happy pride week, I think we really solved the world's problems today. Goilers!

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#134 Joe Mamma
June 08 2014, 05:25PM
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werewolf wrote:

joe momma hahaha classic 5% hater, your the type that thinks because people don't support a movement that they must be a bigot or racist. I bet dollars to donuts if you don't get a job its because someone must have been against you instead of you not having the qualifications. you know what's funny, their are many societies or movements that had great intentions to start with then you get the fanatical wacko's. Anybody who lumps the shriners, halloween, as straight parades only proves their ignorance. Just so you know there just as many racists, bigots, bullies in minorities, try living in their cultures and you would know what i mean. You want to Promote Equality, then do it right and be proud of it. But don't let the radicals control it or speak for you because you don't want the heat on you. Most people will judge you on what your actions are, don't let the bigots like the L.A. clippers owner paint everybody with the same brush. The 5% of the pride movement that Bump and grind and making lude acts does not promote equality but leaves an impression on the rest who watch on the news or read in the papers a bad impression. Just like Trolls like you and some of the others here who post crap and talk out the side of their mouths. try growing up being metis' where your not wanted by either side.

Did you even read my comments? When the pipe gets hot, put it down.

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#135 Joe Mamma
June 08 2014, 05:35PM
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MattL wrote:

yep, you understood what I was saying fully. haha. I'm saying people should be able to express themselves freely in whatever way they choose, you think they should do it your way, and I'm the one who wants to censor people. Nailed it.

Anyway, happy pride week, I think we really solved the world's problems today. Goilers!

You intimated that I'm a "good person" because you realized I support LGBT rights. So if I didn't, I'd be a "bad" person? I know plenty of people that don't believe in gay marriage or agree with my rather liberal views on LGBT issues that I would classify as very "good people." Everyone has a right to their beliefs, as long as they're not pushing those beliefs on others. Whether I agree with them or not. And yes, you stereotyped me when you accused me of being a right-wing bigot in disguise because I voiced an opinion you don't agree with. That's what I was getting at. You can say you're a tolerant person all you like, but actions speak louder than words.

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#136 PapaMike
June 08 2014, 07:44PM
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This is what bothers me about idolizing atheletes....go drinking after a game, dont talk about it....do drugs dont talk about it....participate in hazings....dont talk about...go on a parade well then talk about it....too much double standards in my opinion... either talk about all of ice activities or nothing...

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#137 Sorensenator
June 08 2014, 10:01PM
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.

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#138 Rob...
June 08 2014, 10:02PM
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"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

I believe that people fear things the don't understand or want to understand. I believe that a portion of those people *choose* to turn that fear into hatred, and cloak it in everything from reverse persecution to religion.

I believe that most people love the us vs. them scenario. It makes them feel big and bold. It is the driving force behind high school being awesome for some and a living hell for others. It's why I hear stories of the way Flames and Stamps fans treat anyone wearing an opponents jersey who dares cheer for their team. It's also why it sucks to be part of a minority in ANY country of the world; and anyone who believes that those of a single race, colour or creed have a monopoly on hate hasn't paid attention to anything but their own small corner of the world.

Hey Haters! Do you want to know why this parades exist? It exists because this small minority of society is not going to go away. They are not going to be bullied into non-existence, or closets, or suicide. Deny it all you want, those are the only three options you would consider acceptable. I'd say 'shame on you', but every decade it seems that those even capable of shame are becoming more the minority. Maybe those capable of human decency will soon need their own parade to show the rest of the world they still exist and are proud of who they are.

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#139 pelhem grenville
June 09 2014, 04:24AM
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Sorensenator wrote:

.

...I go back to the battlefield once in awhile after the smoke has cleared and I see what's left over...and it's invariably the carpetbaggers like you Sorensenator...walking around looking for stuff to rummage around in and take back to your hole in the ground where you will inevitably emerge again when there's a topic to mess up ... LOL

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#140 Ari Gold
June 09 2014, 09:06AM
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You've got eyes and a neck. They can turn away and look at something else! If you aren't pleased with seeing GLBT people raising awareness, change the channel, look away, find something else to pay attention to. Your contempt only speaks about your own personal character.

This board reminds me of the story my parents told me of how my mother lost a lot of credibility in her workplace because she married a 'man of colour'. Thankfully the world is progressing despite a very, ignorant few.

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#141 YEGFan
June 09 2014, 11:16AM
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@Joe Mamma

"Everyone has a right to their beliefs, as long as they're not pushing those beliefs on others."

Believing that the rights of LGBT people should be limited would be "pushing those beliefs on others" on an organized and institutional scale.

There is no moral relativism. Not all belief systems are good, or fair, or deserve supporting. Some belief systems are bad, they hurt others, destroy lives, and damage a community for generations.

The point is, no, you cannot be a "good person" and believe whatever you want, unless you have a laughable definition of "good."

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#142 Harlie
June 09 2014, 12:11PM
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Props to Mr.Ference and Mrs. Scrivens for supporting EVERYONE in our community.

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#143 TonyT
June 09 2014, 12:45PM
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YEGFan wrote:

"Everyone has a right to their beliefs, as long as they're not pushing those beliefs on others."

Believing that the rights of LGBT people should be limited would be "pushing those beliefs on others" on an organized and institutional scale.

There is no moral relativism. Not all belief systems are good, or fair, or deserve supporting. Some belief systems are bad, they hurt others, destroy lives, and damage a community for generations.

The point is, no, you cannot be a "good person" and believe whatever you want, unless you have a laughable definition of "good."

For the record, I am a straight man (born and raised) who is married with two kids. If gay people want to get married, I honestly have zero issues with that, I won't be going to the parade but I won't stand in their way. Frankly, the divorce rate among straight people is alarming enough...

Getting that out of the way, your argument is highly debatable. You do realize that in many parts of the world being gay is not acceptable, in fact in some cultures (even by western standards in the not too distant past) it is (and was) akin to incest or bestiality. Now my point is not to say which is good and which is bad, but to emphasize "belief systems" (in all societies) are consistently changing. What is acceptable here, may not be acceptable there. What is acceptable then, may not be acceptable now. To judge others as "bad" for their line of thinking, is to presume that you or I know what is best for all people. Having not been in any one's shoes but mine, I can not say with certainty what is best for people. To emphatically proclaim that mine or yours is the ONLY way, serves only to encourage the kind of "hateful" thinking you and I are trying to eliminate.

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#144 Rob...
June 09 2014, 01:54PM
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@TonyT

Just because a belief system exists somewhere in the world, doesn't make it right or acceptable.

Shame on you for comparing non-heterosexuals to incest or bestiality, actions that are considered to involve cruelty and unwilling (innocent) participants. You are also comparing sexual acts to a complete life. How sad, that in many of these countries, that you fail to name, heterosexual rape is considered more acceptable than two committed adults of the same sex having a relationship.

Edit: apologies for saying 'non-hetero...' but the wonderful abuse filters on the site wouldn't allow the more legit word to be used.

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#145 TonyT
June 09 2014, 02:04PM
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Rob... wrote:

Just because a belief system exists somewhere in the world, doesn't make it right or acceptable.

Shame on you for comparing non-heterosexuals to incest or bestiality, actions that are considered to involve cruelty and unwilling (innocent) participants. You are also comparing sexual acts to a complete life. How sad, that in many of these countries, that you fail to name, heterosexual rape is considered more acceptable than two committed adults of the same sex having a relationship.

Edit: apologies for saying 'non-hetero...' but the wonderful abuse filters on the site wouldn't allow the more legit word to be used.

Hi Rob,

If you read my post I didn't say they were the same, I said in some parts of the world they are (unfortunately) compared. Obviously, they are not the same. I tried to be clear (apparently not enough though), that if we are to be accepting in a world of constantly changing views, we should try not to judge before dealing with people respect. I for one am not in favour of change through condemnation but rather fair debate and education.

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#146 Rob...
June 09 2014, 02:25PM
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@TonyT

Thanks for the clarification. When dealing on the international level, you are correct that we often need to press for change through education and gentle pressure. Often any more severe actions just leads to unwanted/unpredicted results.

When it comes to our own country though, you have several laws in place that are often ignored in favor of comfortable ignorance and majority bully tactics. It is truly sad to think that non-heterosexuals are discriminated against because of something that does not measurably impact the discriminator in any way AND breaks federal laws. I'd love to heard someone explain how they are impacted by gay people in a negative way.

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#147 Rob...
June 10 2014, 07:24AM
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book¡e wrote:

Does anyone else see the idiocy in people who spend time discussing hockey chastising people who spend time pushing for GLBT rights for wasting their time not solving world hunger?

I see more idiocy in people who are anti-gay sex not understanding that the major reason for world hunger is too much irresponsible straight sex.

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