Ship out Schultz? Why?

Jason Gregor
July 08 2014 02:14PM

1297400175174_ORIGINAL

I've been covering the Oilers since 2001, so rarely does much surprise me anymore. I've seen a lot, and sadly for Oilers fans, most of it has been losing. However, I'll admit I'm surprised by how many people want to ship Justin Schultz out of town.

Maybe I shouldn't be, considering I've seen this movie recently staring the likes of Shawn Horcoff, Ales Hemsky, Sam Gagner and many others, but none of those players heard the trade talk so early in their career.

Schultz has only played 122 games, yet many are convinced they know what type of player he'll be and in their eyes he won't help.

I strongly disagree.

I hate generalizations. Nothing irks me more than when someone says, "the media." Lumping all media members together annoys the hell out of me. I don't share the same beliefs as every media member, but often people throw a blanket over all media and assume they feel the same.

So let me preface my next statement by saying I understand that not all of those who believe in Corsi, Fenwick, etc want Schultz gone, but I'm surprised that many of the most vocal trade-Schultz crowd comes from that background.

The ironic part is that many of the people wanting to ship out Schultz are the same guys who have steadfastly defended Jeff Petry. It's almost like people believe they have to trade one of those two and they are picking a side. It is plausible that both can stay in Edmonton, isn't it?

Maybe it just reaffirms that we all have bias. We all do, and anyone who thinks they don't is dreaming. Stats guys have bias to believe their numbers always lead to the correct analysis, watchers of the game believe what they see on the ice is correct, and all of us value players higher or lower for various reasons.

If we all agreed, it sure would be rather boring in the Nation so I hope that never changes.

Anyways, back to Schultz, who has played less than two full NHL seasons.

He is 27th in points over the that time and 29th in points-per-game for defencemen. He is also 6th in EV goals over the past two seasons. His offensive numbers are very good, and bordering on elite.

Where Schultz struggles is in his own zone.

His Corsi and Fenwick numbers have been less than stellar, and his defensive zone coverage has been lacking. I'd say that is due to his inexperience, him having to play more minutes than he should be at this stage of his career, and that he never had to be great defensively in college.

Schultz, like every Oilers D-man, has had to play tougher minutes than they are capable of handling and that has led to some tough nights.

For me, his first two seasons have unfolded very close to how I expected them to. He was touted as an offensive defenceman, and he's lived up to that, but at the same time he's struggled defensively.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

The same was said about Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Nail Yakupov.

Hall has become a dominant player. Eberle has had two very good seasons, while Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov have had a tougher time.

Nugent-Hopkins plays a harder position than the other three forwards, and his lack of size and experience against big, skilled western centres has been rather apparent. I believe he will have the biggest improvement this season (more on that in another article).

Yakupov had an okay first season that ended in spectacular fashion with six goals in three games. He struggled last season, but if you mention trading Yakupov the same people who want Schultz traded were the first to come to Yak's defence.

WHY THE DIFFERENCE?

Why are people more willing to move Schultz, but not Yakupov?

Both have been in the league the same time. I suspect part of it (trade talk) stems from how they have been used. People think Yakupov hasn't been given the same opportunities as Schultz, and that he will produce once he gets more icetime.

That is possible, but isn't it equally possible that Schultz will improve defensively with more experience?

The other perplexing thing for me is that winger is the only position currently where the Oilers have any depth. The Oilers don't have another D-man who can produce offensively. If they trade Schultz who is going to fill his offensive totals?

If the Oilers trade Yakupov, at least they would still have Hall, Eberle, Perron, Purcell and Pouliot.

I'm not saying they should trade Yakupov, I'm just trying to understand why so many believe trading Schultz is the right move.

WRAP UP

Schultz has very good instincts in the offensive zone. He has a deceptively good wrist/snap shot and if he learns to shoot more on the PP, I suspect his offensive totals will improve even more. Schultz is on the verge of being a great offensive D-man, and that's why I'm hesitant, in fact I'm loathe, to trade him at this point.

I fully realize that he has struggled defensively, but he can learn that part of the game. It is extremely rare that players suddenly become better offensive players in the NHL, but many offensive players have improved defensively.

I'm confident Schultz's defensive zone coverage will improve, especially with the addition of Craig Ramsey, and that's why I wouldn't deal him.

At this point I wouldn't trade any of Petry, Schultz or Yakupov, because their value is low and there is no way you would fetch a 2nd line centre for any of them.

I'd keep Schultz, but I'm surprised at how quickly some think he is more of the problem than the solution.

Recently by Jason Gregor:  

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#1 geno
July 08 2014, 02:36PM
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Schultz can't handle ES minutes against most any competition. His impressive ES goal total is more than overturned by the amount of ES goals he aids in allowing when he's on the ice. He's proven to be nothing more than MA Bergeron, but he has value on the market. That's why people would trade him over Petry. They could replace his offence by signing DelZotto to a

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Sign this guy already. $4.5 x 5years.

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#3 YakCity1024
July 08 2014, 02:43PM
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Only way you trade Schultz is if you get a top-2 dman like Shea Weber back in return.

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#4 Serious Gord
July 08 2014, 03:03PM
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Jason:

Please cite your evidence for making this statement: "However, I'll admit I'm surprised by how many people want to ship Justin Schultz out of town."

To my eyes and ears I have witnessed very little evidence of people wanting him shipped out of town.

You "hate generalizations".

I despise strawman arguments - especially if they eminate from someone in the media.

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#5 Fresh Mess
July 08 2014, 04:27PM
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HallFever wrote:

Schultz and Yakupov must STAY.

So, let's say Dean Lombardi has a mental breakdown and offers Doughty for Schultz and Yak...you are saying you would turn it down because SCHULTZ AND YAKUPOV MUST STAY! ???

I'm just trying to understand how you arrive at these absolutes.

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#6 Rick
July 08 2014, 02:55PM
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We have to keep in mind that a lot of these folks who want to trade every body and chase the rest out of town are "NEW" Oiler fans who have moved her from the east .They are so used to running everyone out of town in Toronto and Montreal That it is just how they where brought up as fans they cant help it . .Just ignore them because you don't have to scratch to too deep to find a Leafs or Hab's fan.

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#8 Wintoon
July 08 2014, 02:27PM
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I fully agree with your statements. The problem is that the fan base is becoming increasingly impatient and negative.

As an example, MacT has made significant headway in remolding the Oilers during his 15 month tenure and yet people always seem to expect more. They expect magical trades and immediate solutions. The other GMs in the league are not incompetent. For this reason, trades must consist of value for value. They are not usually low hanging fruit.

I hope that MacT stays the course. If he does, we have a very good chance of seeing entertaining and winning hockey before very long. Maybe even contending for the Cup.

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#9 Cody anderson
July 08 2014, 05:50PM
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I am one of the people who knows hockey and would be happy with a Schultz trade if it brought back the right return. I am actually shocked the other way. How many people are saying to lock him up long term when a lot of those same people were in favour of a 1 year deal for Petry and trading Yak.

I will not argue about J Schultz' offensive talent, but it is not even his struggles in the defensive end that concern me most, instead it is how much he cheats for offense.

I hope you are right and he becomes strong defensively especially since MacT seems to love him so much.

I don't get how we would include him in the core and not Yakupov. They are both gifted offensively and weak defensively. The main difference is that Justin plays defence. His main duty should be defence. Currently I would liken his game to having Gagner play the point.

I am all for keeping him if he is used right. If he is fed soft minutes and mostlt O-zone starts. Have him on the 1st PP unit, but use a 2nd Dman with a bomb on the other point.

There is no way he should have played the most minutes of any Dman on the team. He is currently our least responsible Dman and needs way less minutes and a reliable partner.

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#10 Hockey fan
July 08 2014, 03:09PM
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Anybody whose statistical reference points would lead to dumping Schultz but praising Traded Six Times as some kind of saviour needs to take remedial math. ...... Oiler fan is so mired in losing that they've re-imagined how hockey scores are kept, so that GF/GA aren't the most important metric, but corgis and fencloses and tough opps and a bunch of made-up statistical fairy dust. Then carefully data-mined to show how 9 of the past 6 Stanley Cup winners or finalists were Corgi leaders. You stat-heads might have noticed that even the Oakland A's have thrown in the towel and traded for two high-priced studs. Moneyball is dead and hockey Fap Stats are a fad, like Cooperalls.

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#11 Qwerty
July 08 2014, 03:36PM
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Keep him because maybe he might learn defense? He's a defensman that can't play defense! He has alot of hype around him still and they could cash I'm on that hype and get a player that will actually help the team.

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#12 gravis82
July 08 2014, 03:47PM
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Jason. Its not biased. Data shows that Petry is better than Schultz. I understand its points that matter and Schultz is still developing, but goals and assists of a single player are a very crude indicator of the influence they have on their team winning. You of course are aware of that. The gold standard of ranking players from best to worst relative to each other would be to put each player on the ice with every other player in the NHL for the same amount of time in the exact same situation for multiple seasons of 20min a night playing time and then answer the following question: "when player A is on the ice what is the probability that their team: a)will score, b)will be scored upon. Since we obviously cannot do this, advanced stats looks to estimate this impossible experiment through the examination of other more common events that are likely predictive of outscoring the opposition. Bottom line is, Petry consistently shows better than Schultz in this regard. Id personally trade Schultz as his trade value is higher but his actual value to helping his team outscore the opposition appears to be lower. Since Petry likely has 7 more years of good legs left, id say keep him and deal schultz for a 22-24y 2C with decent advanced metrics. I dont think Schultz will be much more than MA Bergeron anyway. #longwindedopinion #longwindedhashtag

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#13 Qwerty
July 08 2014, 03:50PM
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If you can pay him 2 mill to sit on the bench and play the power play and get a little offensive zone starts 5x5 go hard. If your gonna pay him big money to watch him struggle defensively whats the point and how does it help the team actually win games?

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#14 Simpsonite
July 08 2014, 02:48PM
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We gotta pick somebody to work over I guess now that our whipping boy gags is gone. We rode horcoff pretty hard for not a super good reason and then gags and now we have to pick somebody. Personally I would have picked Lowe but I guess his skating ability has probably diminished to much over the years to get much for him in a trade...gotta keep Shultz...he is way better and will get way better.

I'm going to Blue Jays this season for the Oil...last year, for both, HUGE expectations and they were dashed remarkably early for both...maybe cause of the pressure...never know if that had an effect on a young oilers team or not. With the Blue Jays this year expectations were very low and seemingly so was the pressure and they have exceeded...shockingly it seems...so I am doing that for the Oil...no more hope for a playoff spot...no pressure on them...I am expecting chaos and tears by mid November...if the strategy plays out similar to the Blue Jays they shall be in good shape by all star break.

Wait...did I just put reverse pressure? Did I just ruin this whole thing? Oh geez.

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#15 Dwayne Roloson 35
July 08 2014, 03:15PM
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Its because our "fans" are kind of stupid. they find a goat every year to run out of town.schultz seems to be the next in line

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#16 Fresh Mess
July 08 2014, 06:11PM
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nuge2nail wrote:

Oiler Domination To Follow

I'm shocked this article even needed to be written. Trading Schultz is a really stupid idea.

We need more NHL defenseman that can move the puck - not less.

So there is no player in the NHL that would be worth trading Schultz for? You know of every trade possibility available and can say unequivocally that none of them would improve the team? Amazing.

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#17 blainer
July 08 2014, 02:38PM
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Players who have the puck on their stick a lot will be prone to make mistakes, kinda like PK Subban..man he really coughs up the puck a lot..I bet just about everyone on here would be happy to have PK and his mistakes.. ..its just part of the game. It is very difficult to find offence from the point..

We NEED to keep Shultz and am confident MacT will get a deal done. Mistakes are way more noticeable on D and with the right partner he should be able to thrive. I believe he is in for big year and would support signing him to a long term deal..He should however start practicing that one timer slap shot from the point ala PK Subban...

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#18 Fresh Mess
July 08 2014, 03:05PM
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I don't see a massive campaign to trade Schultz anywhere. But Gregor I ask you, why do so many fans, pundits, and Oilers hockey staff talk about Schultz like he is a pillar of some kind of future dynasty?

I fully agree that Yak is more expendable, but I would entertain offers for either if the return addressed a glaring need.

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#19 nuge2nail
July 08 2014, 05:59PM
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Oiler Domination To Follow

I'm shocked this article even needed to be written. Trading Schultz is a really stupid idea.

We need more NHL defenseman that can move the puck - not less.

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#20 Chunkylover69@yahoo.com
July 08 2014, 03:02PM
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Great article! You nailed it. I have a great feeling about the direction we are heading and Shultz is a big part of the future. A hundred and a few games into what was a giant learning curve and he is trending beautifully. Term and contract are the only discussions we all should be having.

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#21 Fresh Mess
July 08 2014, 04:12PM
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oprah sucks wrote:

article is bang on. trading schultz right now would be a fatal error on managements part. this guy needs to be paired with the right d partner ,as do most young offensive dmen or young d in general, to see this guys full potential. people that want him traded do not understand the time frame it takes for dmen to mature and being put out against toughest competition or playing too many big minutes isnt his fault. mact has said many times that justin is part of the core group and he very well should be. lets not forget that this is a player that had almost every team in the league to choose from to start his pro journey and he chose edmonton(doesnt happen often) which was clearly nothing but a hockey decision. not money, not warmer climates and peeps call on to trade him?? this fact alone says much for his character and is a guy i want as a teammate let alone all his untapped potential! i understand frustration and patience but wake up people!!

How can you make a blanket statement like "trading Schultz right now would be a fatal error" if you don't know what the return would be? It's all relative.

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#22 Total Points
July 08 2014, 04:53PM
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Who are the fans who want to trade Schultz. Obviously a slow news day so Gregor has to stir something up.

Typical media leading the negative parade. By simply indicate that "some" fans want to trade Shultz it encourages all the negative Nellies to comment more negative stuff. I am sure some fans want to get rid of Gregor.

It is time for media and fans to look a little more on the positive side before another very good player is run out of town.

I expect more out of Gregor. I usually enjoy his comments

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#23 Shifty
July 09 2014, 12:10AM
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@SmythforMayor

Yaks shot would probably look good on the point on the pp

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#24 Big K
July 08 2014, 02:47PM
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Mac T will sign him, He's smart enough to continuosly mention him as part of the core group. He's doing what he should, be half smart with the money he has right now!

Fans that call for heads before they should are the fans who dont understand the game.

Its really nice to live in Candy land,ride your unicorn to work drinking its mountain Dew urination.

The fact still remains, alot of damage was done and its going to take time to repair. I for one, am impressed with the short order in which Mact has made us a line up that has a chance, a fighting chance i might add!!

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#25 yaaaaaaaa
July 08 2014, 04:12PM
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totally not in context, but we should try to sign Ryan Johansen away from the Blue Jackets

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#26 TigerUnderGlass
July 08 2014, 04:58PM
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@Jason Gregor

Stats guys have bias to believe their numbers always lead to the correct analysis

This is false. No reasonable stat guy would tell you the numbers are always right. Stats guy believe that the numbers can help make better bets on a future performance than the eyes alone.

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#27 RexHolez
July 08 2014, 05:46PM
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Dan 1919 wrote:

Shultz is not the core, it’s a hopeful image being projected that Shultz will EVENTUALLY become a very good Dman for the Oilers. Let’s not overvalue our players here. Shultz would likely fetch an NHL roster player of solid calibre. Most scenarios would have the Oilers actually improve if they traded Shultz. The risk then would obviously be if Shultz develops into the player everyone speculated he would be before he even played a game in the NHL.

Perfectly said

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#28 Fresh Mess
July 08 2014, 05:58PM
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Lofty wrote:

You're right.

But you also have to draft and develop players. In a salary cap world you also need to manage contracts.

If Chicago is going to sign Toews and Kane for $20 million a season, they need to draft well and use RFA salaries to lower cost.

Yes, I know I'm right because it is a very basic concept. You're right too.

Wanna make out?

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#29 RexHolez
July 08 2014, 10:03PM
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@Oil Vice

I think we'd get better than fair value. He's hyped up, and has this "blossoming star" status that I can't see him ever living up to. If the gm aquiring him is willing to pay for his "potential" and he never fulfills it, oilers win the trade.

He's only played 122 games so you can't make any proper assessment as to what he will become. All you can do is look at what he's done and determine that right now at the current moment he sucks defensively. Will be ever improve? Maybe, but I wouldnt pay him for ifs and maybes.

It's just as likely that he won't improve as it is that he will

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#30 Jordan1126
July 08 2014, 02:58PM
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Rick wrote:

We have to keep in mind that a lot of these folks who want to trade every body and chase the rest out of town are "NEW" Oiler fans who have moved her from the east .They are so used to running everyone out of town in Toronto and Montreal That it is just how they where brought up as fans they cant help it . .Just ignore them because you don't have to scratch to too deep to find a Leafs or Hab's fan.

true maple leaf and hab fans don't change to oilers fans regardless if they live in katz penthouse suite getting served fruit by his fro son, or if they live in georgia picking peaches and making pies...they are arrogantly diehards.

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#31 J-Bird
July 08 2014, 03:06PM
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Quote from Gregor:

"I hate generalizations. Nothing irks me more than when someone says, "the media." Lumping all media members together annoys the hell out of me. I don't share the same beliefs as every media member, but often people throw a blanket over all media and assume they feel the same."

---------

Speaking of lumping, "Fans"....

I hate when the media thinks the vocal minority, like these folks wanting to move a Schultz, are the opinion of the majority. Most fans give two craps about Corsi, Fenwick, etc. Hockey Nerds do. Stop putting the nerd's opinions, the minority opinion, out there as the MAJORITY FANS opinion.

First I've heard of wanting to move Schultz is this article? That says a lot. I listen to 1260 every day. Lumping. Media does it all the time....

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#32 Zarny
July 08 2014, 04:16PM
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@carson

I'm curious, why would the Oilers want Schultz to be a PP specialist?

To me, the term PP specialist refers to a player who only contributes on the PP. The Oilers no doubt want Schultz to QB the PP but I expect they also want him to produce at even strength.

Schultz's PP totals accounted for 39.9% of his overall production. How does that stack up against the top offensive D last year?

Karlsson - 48.6%

Keith - 39.3%

Weber - 67.8%

Hedman - 30.9%

When your PP production is proportional to Duncan Keith's I think you're good.

I fully agree that Schultz needs to improve his defensive play. And in terms of defensive play it's quite possible Marincin, Klefbom and Nurse all surpass Schultz in the near future.

Here is the thing...all 3 play the left side of the ice. Schultz plays on the right so they aren't competing for the same spot.

I agree, if you choose to trade a D the Oilers could probably get more for Schultz than Petry because Schultz is younger, has more upside and is better offensively.

But if you choose to trade a D it makes more sense moving one of Marincin, Klefbom or Nurse given the logjam on the left side.

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#33 DonDon
July 08 2014, 05:20PM
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Fresh Mess wrote:

you will have success if you trade for players that are better or will make you a better team. It depends on the return.

If the Oilers were to follow the logic of your thinking, then they should put Taylor Hall on the block to see what return they would get as it may make the Oilers a better team.

In fact, what about putting all the players on the block?

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#34 Dan 1919
July 08 2014, 05:26PM
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HallFever wrote:

Dean Lombardi trading Doughty is not reality. How are we ever going to have long term success if we always trade our young core?

Shultz is not the core, it’s a hopeful image being projected that Shultz will EVENTUALLY become a very good Dman for the Oilers. Let’s not overvalue our players here. Shultz would likely fetch an NHL roster player of solid calibre. Most scenarios would have the Oilers actually improve if they traded Shultz. The risk then would obviously be if Shultz develops into the player everyone speculated he would be before he even played a game in the NHL.

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#35 Fresh Mess
July 08 2014, 08:15PM
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DrunkGuyTy wrote:

@ Fresh Mess

You should work on your reading comprehension. Most everything you say on here is a question that looks like you're trying to clarify a comment but misrepresenting the point completely. Some might suggest it's deliberate.

I don't understand. So you're saying you hate me because of the colour of my skin?

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#36 OTown
July 08 2014, 11:55PM
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Clap Clap Clap. The Oilers are in no position to trade any of their NHL players. If they are going to trade any assets it should be a defensive prospect not named Nurse and/or a first round pick

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#37 Lycan
July 09 2014, 07:18AM
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I say trade Schultz just so there's a team we can take advantage of having him on the ice. Who cares what the return is, we'd be a better team just by getting to play against Jultz. Just keep him in our division so we can play against him more

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#38 Hockey fan
July 08 2014, 03:02PM
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Rick wrote:

We have to keep in mind that a lot of these folks who want to trade every body and chase the rest out of town are "NEW" Oiler fans who have moved her from the east .They are so used to running everyone out of town in Toronto and Montreal That it is just how they where brought up as fans they cant help it . .Just ignore them because you don't have to scratch to too deep to find a Leafs or Hab's fan.

Talk about goofy generalizations.

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#39 carson
July 08 2014, 03:05PM
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Not a Schultz hater, but I don't think it's a case of fans running Schultz out of town AT ALL. It's really a case of perceived value vs. reality. Schultz is the Oilers most productive offensive d-man according to the stat sheet and looks to be well on his way to becoming a PP specialist, but that doesn't make him a true top 4. Last year, the Oilers dressed a grand total of one legit top 4 d-man - Petry - and he buckled under the workload. Schultz, on the other hand, plays easier minutes and gives up more than he gets. BUT, his 30-something points are more impressive looking than Petry's 18 or whatever, so he has a higher perceived value. It's like Hall vs. Eberle. I like both players a tongue, but you couldn't convince me that Eberle was a more essential part of the puzzle than Hall. Amazingly, there are still people who would disagree and maybe even people around the league. That's why, hypothetically, Eberle is a better option for a trade. Would I trade him? No, but he would be a less painful loss than Hall. I think that's what the talk of Schultz has mostly been. He puts up points, but he needs MAJOR support in the defensive zone and his value would be higher than a guy like Petry, who has a falsely manufactured low value.

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#40 Serious Gord
July 08 2014, 03:32PM
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oprah sucks wrote:

article is bang on. trading schultz right now would be a fatal error on managements part. this guy needs to be paired with the right d partner ,as do most young offensive dmen or young d in general, to see this guys full potential. people that want him traded do not understand the time frame it takes for dmen to mature and being put out against toughest competition or playing too many big minutes isnt his fault. mact has said many times that justin is part of the core group and he very well should be. lets not forget that this is a player that had almost every team in the league to choose from to start his pro journey and he chose edmonton(doesnt happen often) which was clearly nothing but a hockey decision. not money, not warmer climates and peeps call on to trade him?? this fact alone says much for his character and is a guy i want as a teammate let alone all his untapped potential! i understand frustration and patience but wake up people!!

It might be bang on if there was any significant number of fans saying he should be traded. But there aren't so its a straw man argument which is the milli vanilli version of argument.

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#41 carson
July 08 2014, 03:44PM
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@Zarny

Over 1/3 of your offensive production is no small amount and maybe he's not a PP specialist as much as we hoped he could be - he certainly should take a piece of the blame for the ineptitude of the PP last season - so you're probably right in that regard. Schultz has some nice stats in the points department, but 5V5 he gives much more than he gets. One hopes that improves over time and I believe it can with some properly sheltered minutes and a reliable partner. That said, as things stand now he is not a top 4 quality defender and I fully expect all of Klefbom, Marincin and Nurse to pass him by over the next few years. It's all hypothetical, but if you HAVE to trade a D-man (and I need to stress that the Oilers do not), there's a greater likelihood you could get more for Schultz than you could for Petry, despite the fact that Petry, despite his warts, is probably the all around better D-man.

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#42 RexHolez
July 08 2014, 05:05PM
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@Jason Gregor

You can't use his first 122 games to say he will stay as terrible defensively as he currently is. Just like you can't use them to say he'll ever improve.

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#43 loyaloil
July 08 2014, 05:51PM
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What would it take to get both Anisimov (CLB) and Shaw (CHI). Anisimov as second line center and Shaw for third line center. Gives Leon an extra couple of years to move up. Shaw might be cheap as a cap dump too.

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#44 yegCopywriter
July 08 2014, 03:12PM
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Most don't WANT Schultz traded. They just point out that if Petry is considered tradable, Schultz should be too. He is more famous and would fetch a better return than Petry.

To acquire a young 2C by trading a D, Schultz is a more realistic option. And the team with Klefbom replacing Schultz is much more competitive than with Arcobello/Lander/Draisaitl centering your second line.

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#45 Serious Gord
July 08 2014, 03:23PM
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carson wrote:

Not a Schultz hater, but I don't think it's a case of fans running Schultz out of town AT ALL. It's really a case of perceived value vs. reality. Schultz is the Oilers most productive offensive d-man according to the stat sheet and looks to be well on his way to becoming a PP specialist, but that doesn't make him a true top 4. Last year, the Oilers dressed a grand total of one legit top 4 d-man - Petry - and he buckled under the workload. Schultz, on the other hand, plays easier minutes and gives up more than he gets. BUT, his 30-something points are more impressive looking than Petry's 18 or whatever, so he has a higher perceived value. It's like Hall vs. Eberle. I like both players a tongue, but you couldn't convince me that Eberle was a more essential part of the puzzle than Hall. Amazingly, there are still people who would disagree and maybe even people around the league. That's why, hypothetically, Eberle is a better option for a trade. Would I trade him? No, but he would be a less painful loss than Hall. I think that's what the talk of Schultz has mostly been. He puts up points, but he needs MAJOR support in the defensive zone and his value would be higher than a guy like Petry, who has a falsely manufactured low value.

Exactly. Well done.

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#46 Zarny
July 08 2014, 03:33PM
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carson wrote:

Not a Schultz hater, but I don't think it's a case of fans running Schultz out of town AT ALL. It's really a case of perceived value vs. reality. Schultz is the Oilers most productive offensive d-man according to the stat sheet and looks to be well on his way to becoming a PP specialist, but that doesn't make him a true top 4. Last year, the Oilers dressed a grand total of one legit top 4 d-man - Petry - and he buckled under the workload. Schultz, on the other hand, plays easier minutes and gives up more than he gets. BUT, his 30-something points are more impressive looking than Petry's 18 or whatever, so he has a higher perceived value. It's like Hall vs. Eberle. I like both players a tongue, but you couldn't convince me that Eberle was a more essential part of the puzzle than Hall. Amazingly, there are still people who would disagree and maybe even people around the league. That's why, hypothetically, Eberle is a better option for a trade. Would I trade him? No, but he would be a less painful loss than Hall. I think that's what the talk of Schultz has mostly been. He puts up points, but he needs MAJOR support in the defensive zone and his value would be higher than a guy like Petry, who has a falsely manufactured low value.

Schultz looks to be on his way to becoming a PP specialist?

Really? Because over the last two seasons he ranks 6th among D for even strength goals. Of his 33 PT last year only 13 were on the PP.

Sorry, but that isn't becoming a PP specialist. That's simply a young D with only 122 games experience and holes in his defensive game putting up very good offensive numbers that border on elite in all situations.

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#47 Oiler Al
July 08 2014, 04:44PM
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J.G., couldn't agree with you more!... this guy is a keeper. Pair him with a solid stay at home guy and this guy will score some serious points from the back end. He will get better with time, never be a defensive giant ,but neither are Karlsson, Letang , OEL, and co. Fans are always wanting Oilers to sign thee guys, well you got one on your own team.

Tie him up long term.

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#48 Fresh Mess
July 08 2014, 05:03PM
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@HallFever

you will have success if you trade for players that are better or will make you a better team. It depends on the return.

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#49 Oprah sucks
July 08 2014, 06:14PM
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Dan 1919 wrote:

Shultz is not the core, it’s a hopeful image being projected that Shultz will EVENTUALLY become a very good Dman for the Oilers. Let’s not overvalue our players here. Shultz would likely fetch an NHL roster player of solid calibre. Most scenarios would have the Oilers actually improve if they traded Shultz. The risk then would obviously be if Shultz develops into the player everyone speculated he would be before he even played a game in the NHL.

Sorry Schultz is part of the core like it or not. If u believe ur statement then who is the core? Majority of team is based on players that have projected value before any pro games. It's very unlikely, specially right now cap and salaries in general, that oilers would get an upgrade for Schultz unless it's short term like a player approaching ufa status or an overpaid mediocre cap dump player. Teams just don't part with good d to often.

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#50 Dan 1919
July 08 2014, 11:48PM
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Oprah sucks wrote:

Sorry Schultz is part of the core like it or not. If u believe ur statement then who is the core? Majority of team is based on players that have projected value before any pro games. It's very unlikely, specially right now cap and salaries in general, that oilers would get an upgrade for Schultz unless it's short term like a player approaching ufa status or an overpaid mediocre cap dump player. Teams just don't part with good d to often.

Yes you are correct he is considered part of the "core" right now. What I'm saying is that is not as important as MacT makes it out to sound. He may have been considered part of the core yesterday, but trust me, if he thinks he needs a $6mil contract the "core" will quickly change.

I'm sorry you've bought into this "core" wording so hard, but please keep in mind you're talking about the "core" of a perennial basement dweller. It doesn't quite have the same sparkle as a Chicago "core" or a Boston "core."

The Oilers could very easily get an upgrade for Shultz that would be a sound Defensive Dman, or a depth centerman to help alleviate our current 2C vacancy. Both of which would provide an immediate upgrade to the team over a developing Shultz. Again the risk would be that Shultz COULD end up better than what we traded for.

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