If The Oilers End Up With A Lottery Pick…

If this edition of the Edmonton Oilers manages to finish in the bottom five of the NHL, they’ll have done something few teams have done in the salary cap era. 

This morning, Tyler Dellow looked at teams spending more than 90% of the cap who have managed to contend for a lottery pick.  The Oilers currently sit at 98.6% of the cap; only one team in the salary cap era (the 2006-07 Chicago Blackhawks) has managed to spend that much and earn a spot in the draft lottery, so if the Oilers can pull it off (and despite recent victories, that’s plausible) it will represent an achievement of sorts.

In any case, Dellow looked at the nine teams to manage such woeful incompetence despite a relatively high payroll, and again with the exception of the 2006-07 Blackhawks (Khabibulin) all were plagued by lousy goaltending.  He also looked at the general managers of those teams; with the exception of Dean Lombardi, were fired or retired shortly thereafter.  Dale Tallon managed to hang on for two years before getting fired for other incompetence, while Larry Pleau managed to extend his job by bringing in a replacement. 

I strongly recommend reading Dellow’s piece to get an idea of the true level of mismanagement involved in such a feat.  I’m of two minds on this one; I want to see the Oilers add a franchise talent via the draft lottery this summer, but I also feel that the current management group should be completely cleared out if the Oilers find themselves in that situation – Kevin Lowe’s already on the fast track to the sunset, but such a poor performance would certainly warrant a full burn it to the ground and start from scratch approach in the front office.

Wouldn’t it?

  • @Ogden Brother:

    On the other hand, perhaps the best way to look at this is dollars over replacement.

    What I mean by that is that a cap floor team (40.8 million) could reasonably be expected to finish 30th in the NHL. If the Oilers (or any team, for that matter) finish in the bottom five with a payroll 15 million or so over it, we can argue that 15MM is money being spent uselessly; i.e. this team is 15 MM overpaid.

    The fact that they aren't alone in being so overpaid is more a negative reflection on other G.M.'s than it is a defence of the Oilers, IMO.

    • Hemmertime

      Probably a more resonable way to look at it, but again your discounting the injuries. I hate the excuse, but can we really say this team is worse then last years? (and if we do, then what does that say for the MacT vs Quinn/Renney coaching?)

      As for the cap floor argument. Their is only 5 teams that project to have payrolls under 50, and we would have to assume those teams would be significanly better if they added 1.5 – 7 million in salary.

      My theory is: if they can spend it (ie those 5 teams have internal caps) they would… and from looking at their GM counter parts, they wouldn't spend it that wisely.

      As for:

      "The fact that they aren't alone in being so overpaid is more a negative reflection on other G.M.'s than it is a defence of the Oilers, IMO."

      I would believe that was more a function of their environment… ie all of a sudden they didn't have 13% buffers (the amount the cap was rising annually) to help.

  • Ender

    So what your saying is if a team overpays for a average/injury prone goaltender, and spends to the cap limit year in and year out, that the odds are good they will get a top 5 draft pick…….. i think we have four years of high drafts picks headed our way. Let the rebuild begin, oh wait i just looked at the Oil's last 15 years of first round picks….. yikes!!

    • oh wait i just looked at the Oil's last 15 years of first round picks….. yikes!!

      Let's take a look-see…

      2009 – Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson (top prospect, too early to tell, but looks like a good bet)

      2008 – Jordan Eberle (see MPS)

      2007 – Sam Gagner (solid NHL player)

      – Alex Plante (potential 4-6 D-man, few years away)

      – Riley Nash (oh… we'll see, big ??)

      2006 – N/A (Roloson deal)

      2005 – Andrew Cogliano (solid NHL player)

      2004 – Devan Dubnyk (goalie of the future?)

      – Rob Schremp (BUST)

      2003 – Marc Pouliot (capable NHLer, poor pick)

      2002 – Jesse Niinimaki (OUCH! BUST)

      2001 – Ales Hemsky ('nuff said, Great Pick)

      2000 – Alexei Mihkinov (Barry Fraser's "parting gift", BUST)

      1999 – Jani Rita (Ooops, BUST)

      1998 – Michael Henrich (Ummmm, BIG BUST)

      1997 – Michel Riesen (BIGGER BUST)

      1996 – Boyd Devereaux (poor pick, but an NHL veteran of 600+ games)

      – Matthieu Descoteaux (G-Zus H. BUST)

      1995 – Steve Kelly (boy he was fast *DOAN!DOAN!DOAN!* BUST)

      1994 – Jason Bonsignore (boy he was big, BUST)

      – Ryan Smyth (Great pick)

      1993 – Jason Arnott (Great pick, my personal all-time fave Oiler, why'd you guys run him outta town?)

      – Nick Stadjuhar (~didn't want to play in Edmonton and promtly retired)

      I count 10 BUST's out of 22. I doubt their success rate is nearly as bad as most people believe. Obviously, some are still undetermined. I think what makes things look worse is that the BUST's have been as big as they have. Like 500lb. man jumping off a 13 storey diving board 'belly-flop style' big. The Swiss miss & off-the-board Finn are stuff of nightmares. Aside from Barry Fraser's last 4 picks, their record probably isn't that bad. I mean, if you'd like, I can take a look back at the Flames during that same period of time and see some equally disturbing picks (Jesper Mattsson anyone?)

      • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

        Our drafting hasn't be that bad as of late, even Pouilot at the time it was a good pick. The problem has been that we haven't gotten a top pick where we could've gotten a franchise player.

      • Good post RC

        Going back to some numbers I ran a few weeks ago, 14-16 overall picks average to "bust" 65% (roughly) % of the time… with that as a base, I'm confident in saying Oiler drafting has been average at very worst.

        Also, everyone always try's to pin it on Lowe, that should give a clear picture:

        A. We can't even really Jugde Lowe's years for at least another 3-4 years

        B. The prior regime was clearly the drafting problem

        • Thanks pal. Some pretty good stuff from you today too!

          *love-in is over*

          I like making fun of the Oilers drafting as much as the next guy, but clearly their biggest problem was the late 90's Fraser/Sather era (~that Glen Sather sure is a hockey genius~). KP had a couple hits & a couple misses. I like making fun of the fact they took Pouliot over Parise/Getzlaf/Perry/Richards et al, but its obvious many other missed the boat that year too. Drafing is an in-exact science and every team has their scar's & blemishes. We can't assess Stu MacGregor's work thus far, but it looks like he may right the ship.

  • @ Ogden Brother:

    I believe we can say that this team is comparable last year's edition. Last year's group had mostly the same roster, with Cole instead of O'Sullivan, Brodziak instead of Comrie, Reddox/MacIntyre instead of Stone and Roloson instead of Khabibulin (in order: wash, wash, upgrade, downgrade).

    As for the coaching, I'd suggest that MacT's style of hard-matching suited the flawed roster a little better than Quinn's 'roll the lines' technique, and I'd further suggest that Charlie Huddy was pretty darn good at running out the defencemen. The only clear upgrade I see at this point is the Wayne Fleming power play. I don't mean that to knock the current group, just to say that the previous group was never as bad as most people figured.

  • Of the seven Western Conference teams to miss the playoffs in 2007-08, six either made the playoffs last year or are in contention as we speak. The sole exception is Edmonton.

    If we look East, only Florida, Toronto and the Islanders are on pace for their third straight year out of the playoffs.

    So, since Tambellini took over as G.M., the only teams who look to be out of it again are Florida, Toronto, NYI and Edmonton.

    • BarryS

      And the team giving up on the coach had nothing to do with it? Until they selfdestructed, they were in the playoffs and after draft day the GM can doing nothing about it.

      Also, wanting to make changes and having other GM's go along are different things. If no one will trade with you, or sign with you at a resonable price, you can't make changes either.

    • Hemmertime

      Due to his injury I can agree otherwise the difference between Roli's 0.915 last year and Khabbys 0.909 isn't that large. However since Roli has continued his save % failing to sign him looks like a mistake on Tambos part. Still though, Id rather have Khabby in net than Roli.

  • Tamby's problems?

    Well, along with the Khabibulin issue, which is a big one, not a small one. . .

    How about that pick up of O'Sullivan, two years at $3 million for another too soft small guy who doesn't score enough.

    Trading an expiring contract in Erik Cole, a guy who could help in the stretch run, filling it with a player who replicates other skillsets on roster, instead of using cash in summer to fill real needs.

    Or letting Mathieu Garon go, a capable back up, in favour of JDD?

    Or moving to trade Penner, Smid and Cogs for a superstar who clearly doesn't want to be here (and isn't the right player for this team, as it needs a serious rebuild, not one older superstar).

    I've yet to be thrilled by the guy. Seems to be more of the same old, same old Toronto Maple Leaf-itis, over-spending in a fight to be mediocre, rather than building the right way, through the draft.

    • Hemmertime

      Trading Cole for O'Sullivan was a fantastic deal. Landing a guy under 25 that the previous season had over 50 pts for a pending UFA was a steal. Saying Cole would have been better for the stretch than Osully AND Kotalik makes it sound like he had more than 27 pts in 63 games. It was a deal that 29 other GMs probably would have pulled given the chance. Sure, O'sully has been crap here so far but it was a smart move.

      Or letting Mathieu Garon go, a capable back up, in favour of JDD?

      With Dubnyk and JDD keeping Garon didnt make sense if we want to develop one for the future. As for "capable backup" Garon is under 0.900 SP this year so far while JDD is 0.910. Garon was also under .9 last year before trading him so I dont see how capable he was. We got Stone, and a toss in goalie in Sabourin. Another good deal (I wouldn't have minded targetting a backup in the goalie flush UFA this year but Garon is not someone to rely on).

      Or moving to trade Penner, Smid and Cogs for a superstar who clearly doesn't want to be here (and isn't the right player for this team, as it needs a serious rebuild, not one older superstar).

      This would have been the biggest trade in Oiler history (player coming OUR way not leaving) and would have got rid of contracts and given us a top 10 player in the NHL. As for "older superstar" the dude isnt even 30 for 2 more years. So you are getting 5-7 years of him in his prime. He is not old. I dont like how long we hung on to the idea of getting him but had the trade gone through it would have been one of the better ones for our team.

      I love pretty much all the moves Tambo DOES make, its the ones he Doesnt that piss me off. Especially when he makes speeches identifying the same problems he fails to fix.

      *edit* and building through the draft just works FANTASTIC, look at NYI, FLA, and many other teams with plenty of top 10 picks over the last decade. For every Pitts WSH CHI or LA there is 2 teams with fck all to show for it. You can also build through the draft by scouting well and luck, look at Detroit. Sure they are a good destination for UFA's but they also have plenty of drafted players they develop into great players. The Oilers not having a dedicated minor team for so many years and having crappy management is to blame.

    • I think the Garon deal actually worked out pretty well. We had to get rid of a goaltender in a market where they had no value. Tambo did it and got back a great role guy like Stone in the process.

      To me, that deal is a feather in his cap, rather than the black eye that you suggest.

      • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

        I can't believe anyone would complain about the Garon deal. Last year just about everyone wanted one of our goalies dealt, no one really cared who just as long as we got rid of the three-headed monster. Now we are going to complain when we got a role player and fourth rounder?

    • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

      I'd add Grebs contract to Tambs list of "bad moves"

      Mid range guys were in far higher supply the demand this year see Tanguay/Prospal/Lang amoungst others going for dirt cheap (though I may take that back with further analysis of the defensmen market). Cam Barker in Chi also got the same $$$ with a more proven track record and a more rounded game…and the negotiating leverage of early UFA status.

      Competitive bids for Grebs were likely few and far between. The team should have had the hammer.

        • Dan the Man

          Ya, I'm more nit-picking then anything. But for a fan base that gets so worked up over .5 million over-pays, Grebs probably falls in that catagory as well.

          This past summer (and likely the next) really is the best bargin hunting for role players up to mid range talent we've seen since the cap was implemented.

          It really is something the team needs to take advantage of.

    • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

      With all the young assets we have I have no problem if he somewhat overpays in a trade, that is if he is getting that superstar.

  • I would say the deal that looks worst on Tambo is the 2nd rounder that we lost for the use of Kotalik last year. I know he was trying to make the playoffs, but that seemed/seems like such a waste to me. He didn't fit, and we lost a higher round pick in a pretty decent draft.

        • Dan the Man

          I remember thinking the exact same thing in the summer when we didn't re-sign Kotalik. I thought "what a waste" but weren't we still in a playoff position at the deadline?

        • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

          Yes and no. Sure if I would've know we were going to miss the playoff I would want that pick back, but with that said read the comments on this site. It's all about how Tambo did nothing, last year at the deadline we had a weakness and he went out and did something. It didn't work out, oh well. It cost us Cole who wasn't going to re-sign here anyways and we ended up with Kotalik and O'Sullivan.

          People bash Tambo, but he saved Lowe's ass on that trade. Lowe traded Pitkanen for a UFA Cole, Tambo realized he was going to lose an asset in Cole and he turned around and got us something. Sure it may not what we need, but it gives us another asset to trade in the future.

          • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

            The first part about him going out and trying to give us that extra push at the deadline applies to Kotalik.

            Sure it sucks, but if we would've done nothing and missed by 2 points how does that make Tambo look?

  • Hemmertime wrote:

    Due to his injury I can agree otherwise the difference between Roli's 0.915 last year and Khabbys 0.909 isn't that large.

    The average starter faces 1611 shots, meaning that the difference is equal to 10 more goals against, assuming that Khabibulin had been healthy.

    Still, performance isn't the reason I'm upset with the Khabibulin contract.

    • Hemmercules

      I wasn't excited about signing Bulin either, and not because of is performance. The guy is guaranteed to get injured at least once per season and the oil are stuck with him for 4 years. I would have taken Roloson for 2 years over Bulin for 4 years in a heartbeat.

  • Dan the Man

    Since the only real time for a GM to significantly change his team is during the trade deadline and during the summer after free agency, I think it's fair to evaluate Tmbo on what he did during those times.

    At the trade deadline he brought in POS and Kotalik for Cole I think this was a good move. I don't see how having cap space is better than having O'Sullivan so I'd give him a B- here.

    Over the summer, the deletions included Brodziak, Kotalik and Roloson while the additions were Khabibulin and Comrie. I'd probably give a D- for the summer since the teams major weakness was not addressed. I don't honestly care too much about the attempted deals that didn't work out because the bottom line is that they didn't pan out. Close doesn't count in hockey.

    The one caveat I'd add is that just because players signed elsewhere for discounts does not mean they would have done the same here. I can't think of a single player that has before. Even Ryan Smyth, who supposedly bled Oiler blue, would not take a "home town discount".

  • The issue, from my perspective, seems to be a lack of awareness from management in how to go about turning things round. There is a distinct lack of a discernible plan.

    The team needs to take lessons from other leagues which have had salary caps form longer than the NHL has had one.

    When a team reaches the cap and it becomes clear they will not have what it takes a rebuild is in order. That does not mean a complete blow-up of the roster and becoming entirely dependent on getting lucky in the draft.

    It means making moves to gain the flexibility to allow your team improve. If you are at the cap it is too difficult because you butt your head against the cap with every move you make.

    Counting on successful drafting is a bad decision simply because of the unpredictability of picks. With our luck we'd end up with the next Stefan or Daigle.

    You have to shed contracts to give yourself the cap room to make moves. I have no idea why NHL GMs seem to undervalue expiring contracts, but I think it could be an effective tool in a quick rebuild. NHL managers seem to be so caught up in not wanting to let assets walk away that they fail to see the advantage.

    In short, we need to clear cap space, not so that we aren't overpaying, but to gain flexibility.

    To help speed along the rebuild I believe the Oilers need to deal for expiring contracts, which seem to be undervalued leaguewide, rather than attempt to deal our bad contracts for picks. Picks wont fly because to take our salary they need to get rid of salary. We simply take back anybody, as long as their contracts expire at the end of the year.

    The first player that comes to mind is Modin in Columbus. He has been a terrible contract for them because he is always hurt. Could a player like O'Sullivan help them get into the playoffs? Staios? It becomes a potential win win because they get a player that might help with a playoff push and shed a few hundred thousand in salary and we get an expiring contract.

    Truth is I haven't really taken the time to look and see what is available in expiring deals, I'm mostly just trying to say that there seems to be little recognition around the league of the value of expiring contracts and I have wondered for a while if there might be an advantage to b gained because of it.

    It would mean walking away from assets, which seems to be very difficult for NHL managers to do, but it can really help speed up a rebuild.

    I'm probably just stating the obvious, yet I have not noticed any managers taking advantage yet since the cap came into play. Why not?

  • Hemmertime

    One issue with the theory: You are then assuming the $$ will be better spent elsewhere. Considering most of the cap space shopping will be done on the FA market. I see no reason to think that will happen.

    (though like I said, this summer could be the shopping season of a life time)

        • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

          Thing is look who spent money this year. Lots of teams that spent close to the cap last season, what makes you think the same won't happen again this year?

          You could be right, but at the same time I won't hold my breath. These rich teams always seem to find a way to sign high priced free agents and they seem to get the second rate free agents for next to nothing.

          • BarryS

            Ya the big name guys will still get their $$ (though with the Savard signing all that's really left is Marleau/Kovalchuk)

            However the mid range guys aren't always going to the rich teams.

            ie Lang – Pheonix
            Tanguay to TB

            I know the odds of Edmonton landing a top end star are slim to nill through UFA (regardless of how much cap room we have) … (besides big name FA's are usually a rip off)

            I'm more interested in adding depth and role players as FA's.

    • That isn't the assumption at all. It is about flexibility.

      The money could be spent on the FA market, but the more likely use of the money is in trade. It allows us to trade prospects for established players, or any number of deal types that cannot be accomplished when pressed against the cap.

      I am not a strong believer in trying to build with free agents because often they are either playing for the money or they are playing to win. The first doesn't help you and the second isn't coming until you are already winning.

      Cap space gives flexibility in many more ways than free agents. The team needs to rebuild and it needs to use every avenue out there. The draft, trade, and free agency. We get the draft for free, but our odds at success in the trade market and at free agency are improved greatly by getting into position to make the deals we want to make.

  • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

    And because I know what you will write back, I ask does Tambo wait out the free agency period and wait for a Tanguay to fall into his lap? If the team misses the playoffs and he starts feeling the pressure do you really see him waiting til August or September to sign someone?

  • Hemmertime

    The Oilers have one of the highest % of players drafted that end up playing in the NHL. The problem is they all were MacT checking players and not one superstar. Only recently we started drafting Boom or Bust – which is great. Id rather take 10 players that have a 20% chance of turning into a top 6 player than 10 players that have an 85% chance of playing bottom 6.

    • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

      Another reason is we could never sign anyone to play so we were forced to dress a lot more rookies then one would've liked. Didn't we dress like 6 or 8 a couple years back?

        • Fair enough, but homegrown is much better. Your selecting 10 guys with a 20% chance of making it. Thats 2 players that will make it, rather than the 8.5 that make it under your other example. My example gives you 5 NHLers. Good drafting all around is more efficient than a 20% success rate on only highend talent, no?

    • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

      Depends where we are drafting.

      I remember in the summer when Gregor put up his blog about the Oilers not having a top 30 goals scorer for X amount of years (or whatever the parameters were)

      everyone was crying about how we couldn't draft true stars so I went back and looked.

      It was ridiculous how lop-side it was, something like 65% of the top goal scores were drafted top 3, 80% top 5 and 90% top 10 (all going off memory)… and since we rarely, if ever drafted that high….

    • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

      Yep I was thinking the samething, but they seem to have an unwillingness to trade anyone that teams would actually want.

      • I said earlier names like Ott, Niskanen, Grossman, Benn would be of interest. As well as a 1st rounder. As for an exact trade, not sure. If you're moving one of the big 2 D, then you need a young D back or another deal in the works. Something along player-pick-prospect would be the target. I say Dallas because I see a hole on the backend and because I could see that as a potential destination either player may accept.

        James Neal is a pipedream.

    • Dan the Man

      In any deal with Dallas I'd love to get Ott back (I'd really love Neal but that's not going to happen) and probably Ivan Vishnevskiy too only for the reason that it would give us a D pairing of Visnovsky and Vishnevskiy.

        • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

          I wanted to do Grebs for Barker for a long time, but that won't happen now.

          Brownlee likes Byfuglien, but I think he is overpaid and has Penner syndrome at times.

          Think Ogden the original has a good one for Sharp.

        • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

          Maybe Cogs straight up for Buff (though I'm not sure if his luster would wear off quick given how the fan base reacted to Penner the last couple of years)

          I would like Barker if one of our top 4 was gone in another deal.

          Though I can't see Chicago trading either of those guys for Cogs as it would only save a million-ish vs 2 million on Sharp

  • BarryS

    I wonder why any fan feels they are entitled to know what the long term plan team management has for running the team. Seems to me announced long term plans are more valuable to the opposition than the fans. Besides, why give yourself more pressure if things don't go according to plan. Seems running a currently losing operation on the ice, thought not on the leger sheet, is pressure enough.

    As for getting a top player in a trade, would sure help if they wanted to come here. Anybody got sisters who are dating top players who might demand their boyfriends come play in Edmonton. Offering tons of money doesn't seem to be working.

      • BarryS

        Well, it seems to me the teams with a chance to make trading partners are those in the east who have cap or money problems. Flyers, Rangers, Sabres, maybe, or a Flordia team.

        Dallas being our usual playoff opponient in round one or two, (in the distant past when we used to make the playoffs) are by the way the NHL thinks, unlikely at best to be trade partners. Teams like LA in our conference trades because we haven't played them in the playoffs since about when Gretzky played for us, might be wrong about the time, but it hasn't been often. I mean getting someone from the Hawks or the Stars, or the Flames is possible, but how likely?

        So we trade with the conference team and the player we traded scores to knock us out of the playoffs, so we are not in the playoffs and don't have a top five draft pick either. Then do we shrug and say them's the breaks.

          • BarryS

            Don't do odds, but I admit the unlikelihood is slim. But are the last two games an aboration or was the month long injury streak the oboration that is the question time will answer.

          • BarryS

            The planet were all the people thinking making trades within the conference are likely, live. Look back and see what percentage of players traded are traded in conference. Not very high, I expect.

          • BarryS

            You been watching hockey more than this year? Give a couple examples to show major trades made within conference even since the new CBA. Now I know my memory is failing, but I can't remember any. Even Daan the Man admits the trade with the Wild not a major one.

          • Dan the Man

            Curtis Glencross traded by Columbus for Dick Tarnstrom.

            Dwayne Roloson traded by Minnesota for 1st round pick in 2006

            Tony Salmelainen traded to Chicago for Jaroslav Spacek.

            Eric Brewer traded to St. Louis with Doug Lynch and Jeff Woywitka for Chris Pronger.

            Jason Chimera traded to Phoenix with 3rd round pick in 2004

            Tom Gilbert traded by Colorado for Tommy Salo and 6th round pick in 2005 (Justin Mercier).

          • BarryS

            Never said it wouldn't happen, just it was unlikely and do you consider any of these players listed on either side of the class of the players many hope to pry out of the Hawks?

          • BarryS

            I agree, the first trade proves it is possible, though wasn't Pronger a salary dump/unsignable player by Saint Louis, The Second Pronger can't qualify as he forced the trade, not the two teams working to what they see as their advantage. Missed the actual Pronger to the Flyers deal, was he traded. If so, out of conference.

            A trade with the Hawks is not impossible, just unlikely without extenuating circumstances such as with Pronger to ducks.

          • Dan the Man

            Not willing to trade within your conference cuts your trading partners in half. If a team had 2 more or less equal trades on the table, one in their conference and one out of conference, they would likely trade out of conference. Aside from that teams make trades within their conference all the time. The only team the Oilers wouldn't trade with is probably Calgary, they've even made the odd minor deal with Vancouver over the years.

          • BarryS

            Not want to be thought of as trying to change the terms in mid debate without warning, I take correction.

            So lets put it this way, given Iginila can be called a major trade within the conference, and rare enough to quickly come to mind, how many posters think the Oilers or anyone else in the Conference can realisticly be said to be able to pry one of the top players rumour says the Hawks are going to have to trade?

            I think this would be a major trade, any disagreement on it being a major trade.

            Having only half the teams available as possible trading partners has been a fact of life in the NHL as long as there have been conferences. Doesn't make sense, I agree, but a lot the NHL does doesn't seem to make sense.

          • BarryS

            Sorry, I added a couple lines during your post. Didn't do it out of spite, only realized I didn't answer your whole post.

            Hope the Oilers have enough to give enough. Can we actually fill a hole they have?

          • I'd say Cogliano & Smid would be of interest to the Hawks given their age and relative inexpensiveness of their contracts compared to what their moving. For example, if Cogliano replaced Versteeg & Smid replaced Barker, the Hawks shouldn't be a whole lot worse, but they'll save a glut of scrilla.

          • BarryS

            Can see Cogliano, but and Smid if he doesn't want to resign, I think he only signed one year, last year. Looks to me like he might be the shut down defenceman we've all wanted, yes even me. To me, keeping a developing player who wants to stay makes more sence than trading for one who might not want to stay.

            The Hawks might not be a whole lot worse, but will we be a whole lot better?

          • Lets recap the conversation between us on this thread.

            You: Teams won't share future plans with fans.
            ME: Why do you hate talking about the future.
            you: Teams rarely trade in-conference.
            me: what? how does that apply?
            you: they rarely trade in-conference.
            me: that still doesn't make sense.
            you: give me one example of a major trade within the conference.

            You make no sense at all. None.

          • BarryS

            Let's see, one poster trumpets his lack of understanding and sense. Other posters present trades to prove me wrong. The trades can then be debated to see if they are equivalent to those players many want to pry from the Hawks?

            So who has the problem, here?

          • If you aren't responding to me then don't reply to my posts. If you are then at least try to respond to the post you are quoting instead of typing random inapplicable statements.

            If you can seriously read back our conversation and believe that your responses to me applied, in even the slightest sense, to the posts to which you were responding then you are at least slightly retarded.

            Have you tried reading the homeschooling books you sell?

          • l……………………………………………………………………………………………….o……………………………………………………………………………………………………l

          • -Flames trade Fleury to Colorado for Regehr, Corbet, etc.

            -Flames trade Derek Morris to Colorado for Chris Drury

            -Flames trade Lombardi, et al to Phoenix for Jokinen

            -Flames trade draft pick to San Jose for Kiprusoff

            – Flames trade Joe Neiuwendyk to Dallas for Jarome Iginla

            -Flames trade Oleg Saprykin & Denis Gauthier to Phoenix for Daymond Langkow

            -Oilers trade Greene & Stoll to LA for Visnovsky

            -Oilers trade Pronger to Ducks for Lupul, Smid +

            -Oilers trade Torres to Columbus for Brule

            -Oilers trade Tommy Salo to Colorado for Tom Gilbert

            ~No, teams never trade within the conference~

  • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

    I still say we should think about taking Sopel to help out the Hawks right now. They need some tagging room maybe we help them now and they help us later. And if need be waive Sopel next year.

      • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

        It's no different then the crap in the previous CBA that we pulled with Sather. Remember getting Leetch and Richter for younger players, then because those guys signed elsewhere we ended up with a 2nd rounder or something.

        Question is what kind relation do we have with Chicago and are there any other teams that might think about doing this? Maybe one with more salary room for next year?

  • Dan the Man

    Another trade that might be possibly (though not sure if I like it)

    Something centerd around Horcoff for Vclav

    Edmonton is all about the cap hit

    TB is all about the $$'s paid

    Horc will be owed 26 million after this season

    Vinny will be owed 75 million after this season

    Vinny would only cost us a Robert Nilsson on the Cap

    Horc would save them 3.5 million the first two years, 4 million the 3rd year 6 the 4th year and 7 million the 5th off their budget… You could like sign a decent player for that this summer.

    Do they want to pay their soon to be (if not allready) to be their 2nd line center 10 million dollars?

  • BarryS

    Most of those trades can't be called major when they went over. Salo was done and a playoff acquisition. Torres and Brule were thought to be done by their respective teams. Pronger was a player forced trade. Iginla as a spare part when traded, Kiprusoff couldn't make the team that traded him, Flury was done. So of your list only three trades might be called major. Trading with Pheonix was like taking candy from a baby. The others were good enough moves when made by one teams, to be sure, but what do you mean by major? Can't say any of them have put either team up a level, except Iginlia and Kiprusoff a few years later and Jokinen might yet pay off.

    • Barry S wrote:

      comment153

      Most of those trades can't be called major when they went over.

      comment 143

      The planet were all the people thinking making trades within the conference are likely, live. Look back and see what percentage of players traded are traded in conference. Not very high, I expect.

      So… you never said MAJOR trade.

      -Pronger never forced a trade to a western conference team, yet he was still traded within conference.

      -Iginla was not a "spare part" in that deal. He was the centerpiece!

      -Fleury wasn't yet quite done… soon after. It WAS a MAJOR deadline deal.

  • srbuhr

    It seems to me the biggest management problem with this team is much more than the salary cap issue. The overpaid players are only a symptom of a greater problem. All teams have injuries – good teams have depth to deal with this issue. The oilers have been a bad team for nearly twenty years and yet have a so called skilled team that is near the bottom of the league. Their AHL affiliate is at the bottom of its league – no doubt full of highly skilled players. What we need to consider is who is telling us these players are highly skilled – the management team that drafted them. Look back at the drafts – Klowe and his crew nearly always drafted players that central scouting rated much much lower. These are all our highly skilled players. I agree with Pat Quinn – "supposedly we are a team of high skilled players – We just havent seen that yet".

    For this reason I shudder at the thought of trading the few players that may have value for draft picks. Sure lets trade a Souray, Vishnovski or a Brule for more picks that will be wasted. Since the 2001 draft the oilers have had 32 picks in the first three rounds. Their success – Hemsky, Gagner and Cogliano. Stoll and Green could be considered a good pick too but were traded for another teams good pick. 32 picks and two likely top six forwards. Based on this simply math, this team management will need 27 years to draft 6 top six forwards. It looks like they went to the Toronto Maple Leafs school of Hockey Management. No wonder our AHL and the big club struggles. Klowe and his crew have no clue.

    • BarryS

      Well Tambo seemed to have tried to address that last summer. Good thing too, some of those players are playing here now.

      Unless you receive personal press releases from the team, you get your information the same place we all do, through the media, and our buddies. Not blaming the messengers, just pointing out how some media person says something and hundreds of parrots start posting.

      Now I'm sure you have you have your own personal league sources none the rest of us have and always form your own opinions, but the rest of us don't have that option. And given the number of complaints about the quality of the various people broadcasting the games live, they don't affect our opinions either.

  • srbuhr

    @ BarryS

    Whats your point? Tell me then, who the highly skilled players are. I never said the team had no skill but its a stretch at best to say highly skilled.

    My point is that the team has a thin talent level and expecting that recent draft picks will be answer seems a foolish bet. Certainly, as you call him, Tambo has a daunting task ahead of him to improve this team.

    And finally:
    "Well Tambo seemed to have tried to address that last summer"
    What does this mean – Atleast he tried hard??? Do you mean atleast he is having fun, thats what really counts.

    • BarryS

      I mean he improved the farm team, many of the new players played with the big team during the injury time. A couple might even stick this year.

      Don't know what other farm team could lose as many players to the big team at one time during the season and still remain competative, including their top goalie. Can't say how competative they really are, since so many players are here.

      Don't recall mentioning highly skilled at any time but since you ask.

      Penner seems highly skilled, so does Hemsky Souray and Vish seem highly stilled. Khabbi seems highly skilled, JDD is not looking to bad and plays better almost every game, Brule, Smid, Gagner, Grebs are still viable players to build a team around. Cogs and Nilsson still might pan out, much as I don't like Nilsson. There are some kids with a chance coming up in a year or two. Heard on the Team tonight a couple of the Swedes are mean besides talented around the net. Don't know if mean for Swedes, or mean like Canadians. Time will tell.

      Sorry its not all gloom and doom as some may think/hope. Can't see a cup run, as opposed to a win, this year or maybe two.