Crazy Trade Proposals: Penner for Malone

Ryan Malone’s a player I’ve liked for a while, although I was opposed to the Oilers chasing him last summer because I thought he would be overpaid, both in actual dollars and in term. Turns out that the Tampa Bay Lightning wanted to take a chance, and now Malone has six more years at a 4.5MM dollar cap hit.

But this is where things get interesting. There’s a big difference between cap hit and actual salary – and Malone’s contract is front-loaded, meaning that for the next two seasons he’s going to be paid 6-million actual dollars.

For a cap team (like the Oilers) salary doesn’t really matter; it’s the cap hit that is essential. For the Lightning, though, actual salary matters a great deal. They’re actively looking for new investors, and the ownership group has a 130MM dollar debt load – requiring payments in the neighborhood of ten million dollars each year. They’re expected to play next season with a budget in the 43-45 million dollar range; a budget which already has 39-million dollars committed to players signed for next season. With the remaining money, the Lightning need to sign or re-sign at least three defensemen a couple of forwards, and give Karri Ramo a new contract.

Which takes us to the Oilers. The salary being front-loaded shouldn’t be a concern for Mr. Katz, but the cap space would seem to be a problem – unless Dustin Penner were going the other way. Penner’s contract isn’t front-loaded, meaning that his 4.25 MM cap hit is exactly the same as his 4.25 MM annual salary.

There isn’t a ton of difference between the two players in size or in offensive production. They even play similar roles on the powerplay, so it isn’t like the Lightning would be making a huge downgrade in those areas. And for the Oilers, for 250,000 in cap space and 1.75MM in actual dollars, they’d see a big upgrade in the nastiness and physical combativeness present in their top-six forwards.

This seems like a proposal that would work for both teams – which probably means I’m missing something big. Thoughts?

  • Hippy

    Archaeologuy wrote:

    He is INCREDIBLY overrated and has not produced like a top tier guy despite the fact that he has played with great players his whole career.

    What were St. Louis' numbers before going to Tampa? And did Brad Richards look like the same player after leaving TB.

    I think you might be underestimating Lecavalier's talent, by saying he isn't a top end player. I like St. Louis as well, but I wouldn't say he carries Vinny by any stretch.

    If you are evaluating his value on contract alone then he isn't great, but he is still a top end player on the ice. Is he worth his contract in a salary cap era now, not likely. But that doesn't mean he isn't a top end player.

  • Hippy

    Rick wrote:

    Getting just marginally better and being on the hook for an additional 250K (and a significantly longer term) seems like a miss to me.

    The Oilers could deal Malone later, when his Salary drops off, to a team trying to make the cap basement.

  • Hippy

    Here is another crazy trade idea for you:

    horcoff to Philly for Briere. Now i know that leaves the oil with lots of holes (penalty Kill, faceoffs ect.) but Philly doesnt want briere and the oilers need offence.

    Cap hit of a million more but would have to be part of a group of deals

  • Hippy

    RossCreek wrote:

    How about Tampa makes the deal with Edmonton for Penner, and then flips Penner and the 2nd to the Leafs for the 7th.

    Penner would get chewed out more in Toronto than he does in Edmonton. Penner needs to go to an older team like Boston or Detroit, somewhere in which the leadership can babysit him… just like the Ducks did for him.

  • Hippy

    Agreed on Lecavalier; that's a terrible contract, and would break the back of the payroll for the duration of the contract.

    Here's an alternative trade scenario, as I just don't know if Penner is moveable:

    Gilbert/Brodziak to Buffalo
    Gaustad/Stafford/pick to Edmonton

    I just don't think the Oil will be able to get the kind of high-end return for Gilbert that has been speculated. This deal addresses a top 6 forward in Stafford, and a thirdline centre with size and grit in Gaustad. Thoughts?

  • Hippy

    Oh, and I'll say it now before OB or Ross Creek brings it up. I think going after Lecavalier would be a HUGE mistake based on his unspectacular career and massive salary. He is INCREDIBLY overrated and has not produced like a top tier guy despite the fact that he has played with great players his whole career.

    St. Louis is the real prize on that team. Vinny is #2 behind him.

  • Hippy

    @ Future GM because the Leafs 7th overall pick is better than the Oilers 10th overall pick. If i'm not mistaken, the top 9 picks are the cream of the crop this year. Tampa would like to stay in the top 9, I would assume. A better approach would be to land a top 6 pick 1st (better than Burke's 7th). He'd be pissed if the Oil landed Tavares, eh! How about Tampa makes the deal with Edmonton for Penner, and then flips Penner and the 2nd to the Leafs for the 7th.

  • Hippy

    @ Ogden Brother:
    i wasnt terribly impressed with Patio Lantern and the Oil should try and get bigger (or so everyone tells me). There are too many players taking up top 6 spots and i like Gagner, Cogs, Hemsky, Penner, and Horc more than Patio. Keep Penner and get Malone and the Oil look pretty big on the left side. Seriously though, I didnt have nearly as big a problem with Penner as the old coach did. His 5 on 5 play was tremendous compared to his reputation.

    Or lose Penner to get Malone and then use Gilbert to get someone better for the 1st line (or move way up in the draft!). But I was just suggesting it as if it were the only move the Oilers were making.

  • Hippy

    Is the upgrade in nastiness still worth it if Malone's offence drops off?

    His shooting percentage was rediculous this year and unusually high last year as well.

    It's gambling to grab Malone at those dollars and hoping he sustains it. I would like to think that getting rid of Penner's contract will allow the Oilers to get significantly better (obviously not through the same deal).

    Getting just marginally better and being on the hook for an additional 250K (and a significantly longer term) seems like a miss to me.

    If Tambellini is looking to help Tampa out financially, he should swing for the fences and go after Lecavalier.

  • Hippy

    Future_GM wrote:

    Its noted on TSN, with Burke denying, that there were discussions of Malone and 2nd overall for TOR 7th overall. If this is the case, why wouldn’t we maybe offer up a nilsson + our 1st for malone and their 1st and worry about the cap space via trades later?

    Wow, TB would be nuts to make that trade.

  • Hippy

    Its noted on TSN, with Burke denying, that there were discussions of Malone and 2nd overall for TOR 7th overall. If this is the case, why wouldn't we maybe offer up a nilsson + our 1st for malone and their 1st and worry about the cap space via trades later?

  • Hippy

    Ogden Brother wrote:

    Archaeologuy wrote:
    I’d make that trade in a heartbeat, but I would think that the Lightning would be looking to dump salary even further. They are the perfect team to lowball at first. Offer up the junk like Nilsson and a promising young guy like O’Sullivan. Now the Oilers have gained a big gritty guy and the Lightning get 2 players at the same price as 1.
    Of course this all depends on the Lightning being hooped financially. Otherwise there is no reason for them to make the trades.
    You’d rather trade Penner over O’sully?

    Oops, O'Sully over Penner?

  • Hippy

    Archaeologuy wrote:

    I’d make that trade in a heartbeat, but I would think that the Lightning would be looking to dump salary even further. They are the perfect team to lowball at first. Offer up the junk like Nilsson and a promising young guy like O’Sullivan. Now the Oilers have gained a big gritty guy and the Lightning get 2 players at the same price as 1.
    Of course this all depends on the Lightning being hooped financially. Otherwise there is no reason for them to make the trades.

    You'd rather trade Penner over O'sully?

  • Hippy

    I don't think the Oil would have to give up anything more. If anything they may be able to ask for something else for relieving Tampa of some financial concerns. Maybe they could look at Jeff Halpern too as he's that 3rd line checking centre the Oilers could use. Throw Nilsson for Halpern into the deal.

  • Hippy

    I'd make that trade in a heartbeat, but I would think that the Lightning would be looking to dump salary even further. They are the perfect team to lowball at first. Offer up the junk like Nilsson and a promising young guy like O'Sullivan. Now the Oilers have gained a big gritty guy and the Lightning get 2 players at the same price as 1.

    Of course this all depends on the Lightning being hooped financially. Otherwise there is no reason for them to make the trades.

  • Hippy

    jb wrote:

    This proposal makes a ton of sense; I wonder if the Oil would have to throw in a sweetener like a draft pick or low-level prospect to help the Lightning from a optical standpoint.

    I bet Rob Schremp would love Tampa.

    I also wonder if that means Malone’s dad would be included in the trade, as he was hired by the Lightning at the same time they signed Malone. Man, the Lightning are a freaking mess.

    I wonder if he was one of the guys they laid off earlier this month?

  • Hippy

    This proposal makes a ton of sense; I wonder if the Oil would have to throw in a sweetener like a draft pick or low-level prospect to help the Lightning from a optical standpoint.

    I also wonder if that means Malone's dad would be included in the trade, as he was hired by the Lightning at the same time they signed Malone. Man, the Lightning are a freaking mess.

  • Hippy

    I've made this same proposal on this site within the last month. Not only would the actual dollars next season make this deal make sense for Tampa, but the term & total dollars do too.

  • Hippy

    I've thought about this before, seems solid to me…. the only problem is we'd have to listen to endless whining that:

    "Ryan Malone" is a 6 6 6 6 million dollar player!!