The Case For Not Buying Out Anyone

In his article today, Jason Gregor mentions a pair of moves that have been widely speculated for some time: buying out Patrick O’Sullivan and Robert Nilsson.

Gregor brought this up in the context of explaining why Ethan Moreau shouldn’t be bought out; here’s the quote:

Many fans and media have debated the merits of buying him out this summer, but I don’t see the Oilers buying out three guys, and with Jordon Eberle, Linus Omark and their first pick coming in camp next year, those guys are going to replace Robert Nilsson and Patrick O’Sullivan, not Ethan Moreau.

You could buy out both O’Sullivan and Nilsson for a little more than what it would cost to buy out Moreau. Sure, Moreau struggled for most of this season, but he’s given more to the organization than O’Sullivan and Nilsson combined and that should count for something.

This will probably surprise some people, but I think Gregor’s absolutely right: the Oilers shouldn’t buy out Moreau. It doesn’t make any sense, given that this team is going to continue the rebuilding process next year and is unlikely to compete: why not pay Moreau next year, get it over with, and call it a day rather than push his payments out over coming years when the Oilers will need the cap space?

The speculation that O’Sullivan and Nilsson are slated for buyouts has been around for a while, and I think it’s at the point now where we all expect it to happen this summer. From CapGeek.com, here are the cap hits for buying out those two players:

Nilsson

  • 2010-11: -$83,333
  • 2011-12: $416,667

O’Sullivan

  • 2010-11: $935, 417
  • 2011-12: $397,917

That’s a combined cap hit of about $850,000 next season and $815,000 the year after that. On the other hand, as it stands right now both of those players would play for full price next year (a little under $5.0 million) and then cost nothing in 2011-12.

Certainly there’s some financial incentive to ownership to buy out these players; if Daryl Katz has his general manager buy them out he’ll only pay one-third of the dollars he would pay to these underachievers otherwise.

In fact, assuming that the Oilers are going to continue their rebuild next season (i.e. not set the playoffs as a goal) this could be cast as a hockey decision vs. a money decision. On the one hand, Katz can save some money by buying these players out, money he’s under no obligation to spend next season, and in fact which it would make no sense to spend next season. On the other hand, he does this at the cost of a little over $800,000 in cap space two years from now, when his team will likely compete.

I know the decision I’d make in his shoes: I’d buy those guys out and save some of my money. I also know the decision I’d make if I were solely interested in the on-ice welfare of the Edmonton Oilers: I’d keep them around for another season, perhaps with Nilsson in the minors and giving O’Sullivan one more chance (and history shows it might not be a wasted chance) in a season that doesn’t matter, and then clear the books in 2011-12 when my team starts competing again.

Just to make it clear what I’m driving at here: I don’t begrudge Daryl Katz the chance to save some of his ill-spent money.  But if the team is rebuilding, and the Oilers decide to buy these players out, this is a financial decision, not a hockey one, and that’s how it should be viewed.

  • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

    I can't bear to watch one more season of Ethan Moreau and Patrick O'Sullivan.

    Trade O'Sullivan. Some team will take him.

    Send Moreau to the minors.

    Keep Nilsson, who plays better than either of them by a healthy margin.

  • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

    Why buy anyone out? Hold onto them until you can move them. If those two were in their final year of their contract this year then they would've been dealt this year.

    I don't understand the logic of keeping a 35 year with no upside over two 25 year olds that have shown glimpses of having talent and still have some upside.

  • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

    On second thought, maybe you can't trade O'Sullivan.

    Send him to the minors, too. Or maybe some European team will take him.

    Enough of these guys who can't play.

    • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

      I agee with the whole take up cap space in 11-12, but the one thing that I see for buying someone out is opening up roster spots. The Oilers need to sit down and look at who they expect to make the team next year and how many spots they need. Only allowed max 15 forwards next year.

    • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

      It's not just about cap space/$$$'s it's also about roster space.

      Nillson/O'sully could be bought out and a couple Chris Higgins and Eric Nystrom types could be brought in for a fraction of the cost. Rebalancing a proper roster and possibly allowing the team to compete as early as next year.

  • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

    Just throwing it out there as Staples has mentioned Europe, but any talk of Nilsson maybe leaving and going to play in Russia/Sweden?

  • Willis, do you honestly believe Nilsson would clear waivers to go back to the minors? Or am I missing a reason why he wouldn't have to.

    He's a 25 year old with a career PPG of 0.46 over 252 games. I realize the same argument can be made for POS who is a 25 year old with a career PPG of 0.53, however Nilsson, despite his defensive shortcomings has a career +/- of -15 (2 of 4 seasons in the plus, discounting his 4 game season at -1) whereas POS lives up to his acronym by having been a minus player in all but 1 of his pro seasons and is an epic – 56 in 277 games.

    They're similar players with arguably lazy attitudes, but at least Nilsson doesn't skate like he's moping.

    I'm with David Staples; Nilsson is far and away the best of the 3 and should be kept.

    • VMR

      I think letting them get picked up off waivers is a much better option than buying them out. I'm sure someone out there will take a shot at both of them off the waiver wire but if it looks like they're getting bought out then teams will wait for that to get them cheaper.

  • you need to wait until Training camp opens.

    Does svenson sign here? What if we pick up Sequin and he needs 1 more year in JR?

    There is still a ton of ? out there and I think you need to wait until training camp comes to see who can make the Team this year. I would rather not rush a guy into the league like Columbus did with Brule just to fill a roster spot.

    POS had almost 60 points one year. Why was he so successful? can we duplicate this here?

          • Robin Brownlee said:

            "I wrote not long ago I believed the Oilers were leaning toward Hall, a dynamic left winger who is less than three months older than Seguin, but has one full OHL season more on his resume. If the Oilers want the player who is most NHL ready now — which doesn't preclude him from staying a tick ahead of Seguin five or seven years down the road — then he's the guy."

            Matthew Barnaby

            He said on TSN the other day that he is not as ready to play in the NHL as Hall is.

            http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip285287#clip285287

            I'm not saying Sequin can't up in next year and play "the show" but does playing him another year in Jr hurt him?

          • Neither Robin Brownlee nor Matthew Barnaby are amateur scouts who have watched the kids play dozens of times. Give me the name of a real scout who said it.

            And being "less" ready for the NHL doesnt mean back to juniour. It means the other kid might be better in the Rookie season, but thats it.

          • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

            I wouldn't find it too far fetched if Barnaby got his info from scouts. Those analysts get most their info from scouts they don't watch every single guy.

          • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

            I never really heard the talk so I don't really know, but McKenzie was talking about players this morning and he always brings up will the scouts say this or the scouts say that. I just have to think that most of the media guys gets their info from scouts.

          • I dont doubt for a minute that McKenzie and Dregger get their info from the best sources. The only difference in that panel discussion was everyone said they werent sure except Barnaby who definitely said Hall. I'm not going to take Barnaby's word over Dregger and McKenzie's.

          • I don't need to see the kids play dozens of times. When people who do tell me they are of the mind that Hall is more NHL ready right now — which doesn't necessarily mean better three or five years from now — I believe them.

            I've talked to several scouts on this and, no, I'm not naming them — that's why they talk.

          • Did those scouts suggest that Seguin needs another year or Juniour or that both can play in the NHL but Hall will probably have a better rookie season?

            I didnt ask you to name your source. You have credentials. Woogie doesnt.

          • I stated my sources that robin and matthew stated Hall is more ready than Sequin who did get this info from scouts.

            You are the one who said they aren't amateur scouts and should not "know".
            I also never said sequin will not pay the show next year. I merely stated it might be a possibility based on the quotes I provided you.

          • This is getting ramped up for no reason. I dont think either of them will need to spend more time in the juniours. More NHL ready, Less NHL ready, whatever. One will do better than the other, both will probably be in the NHL.

          • Does Woogie have Press Credentials that suggest he has access to people in the know that I'm not aware of?

            That's not a personal attack at all. No more than it is for me to say "LeBron James is an NBA All-Star. Ogden Brother Jr isnt."

          • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

            There was really no reason to throw woogie into the conversation to start with and how don't you know I'm an NBA all-star?

          • RB respoded as if my comment was directed to him. It was directed to Woogie. That's a pretty good reason to bring up Woogie, I think. I doubt his feelings were hurt when I asked if a professional scout went on record as saying Seguin needs another year in Jr.

            It was just a guess about your mad Basketball skillz

          • No. It hasn't been suggested to me that Seguin isn't ready to play in the NHL, only that Hall is further along the development curve. Then again, one NHL assistant GM had very high praise for Seguin, comparing him to Jonathan Toews.

          • BigE91

            I just don't understand how it is given all that's happened not only this year but in the past years that Seguin is rated ahead of Hall.

            Then to have Seguin crap the bed in this last series head to head against Hall to me should have clinched it…Seguin has been totally neutralized in this series and has also looked not so great defensively.

            It seems to me that Hall has been further along the development curve than Seguin all along…I'm wondering what makes all the scouts feel this will change to make Seguin the number one rated guy?

            On a side note: As others have done here I wouldn't disregard the opinion of a guy who actually played in the NHL for a long time (Barnaby) and knows what it takes to succeed in the league.

            Put me down for Hall….all the way.

          • Here's why I figure Hall got bumped down and Seguin got number 1;

            1. He's playing on a stacked team. That's obviously going to inflate your numbers. Where as Seguin is pretty much the only reason his team is in the playoffs in the first place. He took the team on his back the entire year.

            2. A ton of Hall's points come on the power play where as most of Seguin's are at EV.

            3. Hall's willingness to go into the dirty spots no matter what is a great trait, but it can also lead to a ton of injuries, which I'm pretty sure scouts aren't looking for.

            I like both these kids and the Oilers can't go wrong with either of them. And I think the difference between them being ranked #1 and #2 is so incredibly small that you'd be hard pressed to find a scout who would call either of them the clear favorite, regardless of the rankings.

            Hall is amazing, and he looks like he's ready to make the jump to the show where as the verdict is still out on Seguin. But I think Seguin has a lot more all around skill which is why the scouts covet him slightly higher.

            I agree with you though, Hall has shown he can come through in the clutch where as Seguin hasn't shown that yet.
            But the fact that you agree with anything Matt Barnaby says already makes me discredit you.

          • Honestly, please tell me that the scouts wouldn't get caught up in what a player is doing in just one season. We've seen players at all levels have one good season or two and never repeat it.

            On point 1 – You're right Hall does play on a good team of which he is the best player…with all those good players he's the best. But playing on a stacked team might mean that you get less ice time as well, no? Also the Plymouth team wasn't sliced meat and they improved themselves at the trade deadline. Plymouth may not be as good as Windsor but they aren't too bad. Seguin has shown nothing in the head to head series, he has been totally shutdown and he is a serious minus player. Before the series started everyone was hyping it up as the head to head battle and now that Windsor has dominated Plymouth everyone wants to disregard it…why?

            On point 2 – What does it matter where the points come from EV or PP? And also just because it happened this one year doesn't mean it will happen every year…tell me, did Seguin have more EV strength points and PP points the last year or the year before that? No he didn't. In fact he didn't make junior until last year. Hall was a memorial cup mvp as a 17 yr old..his accomplishments in the OHL far outshine anything Seguin has done. This is the main reason I don't understand this fascination with Seguin.

            On point 3 – Hall's willingness to go to dirty spots is what you need to be able to do to succeed in today's NHL…it's one of the big reasons the Oilers can't succeed because they don't have guys that will do that on a consistent basis. Both the present coach and the previous coach have said that very same thing. Hall hasn't had any injury problems in his days in major junior. So are you saying we should have a team full of guys who don't go to the dirty spots? We already have that and how does that work? Why would we want another soft 6ft player in our lineup?

            You said it yourself..Hall is amazing and does look ready to make the jump to the NHL…so why wouldn't we want a guy who is already NHL ready instead of a guy who we think will become NHL ready? I think Hall has more all around skill. Defense you can teach…skating, scoring and consistency can't be taught.

            When it came to the world juniors it was seasoned WHL coaching that picked Hall to be on that team and to send Seguin back to his jr team. It seems to me Hall is the better player now and stands a very good chance of being better going forward.

            Hall has shown consistency from the time he entered the OHL….Seguin has had one good year and that's it…what if it's his best year and he never duplicates it?

            Lastly, I'm not sure why you would disregard a player who had a very successful NHL career. Are you suggesting Barnaby is a dummy and doesn't understand what it takes to play in the league? I wouldn't really disregard any player who had a good NHL career, it just happened to be Barnaby in this case…

          • Wow, why is everyone so damn touchy around here? We are drafting a franchise player no matter who we take and everyone is acting like this number one pick is the worst thing that has ever happened to the team.

            Though I've been on Team Taylor the whole year, no matter which one we pick we're getting a stud of a player.

            I wasn't trying to tell you how much better Seguin is over Hall, I was just throwing out some ideas as to why he ended up on the top of both scouting reports, as it seemed like you were completely miffed as to how that could happen.

            And I was mostly joking with that Barnaby comment, but I'm not sure how much I value the opinion of a guy who managed 300 points in over 800 games over a group of guys who get paid to watch Jr hockey for a living.

          • Just trying to make some points for Hall….and was asking the question about the fascination with Seguin cuz I just don't get it…I actually think we are going to end up with Seguin cuz the capper to such a screwed up year will be losing the draft lottery…and more than likely he (Seguin) will have a fine career…and if we end up with him I'll be happy…but I'll be happier if we get Hall πŸ™‚

          • Absolutely. I think the sour the attitude around here ended up getting to me too.

            Chin up errbody! The Flames are out, the Leafs locked up a top 3 pick for the Bruins and it looks like the Canucks have a first round defeat at the hands of the Wings waiting for them.
            And no matter where your allegiance lies I promise you there is no way the Oilers can muff up this draft pick. NO CHANCE!

          • Pajamah

            I was listening to the post game show on Calgary radio yesterday after the Flames were eliminated and the fans were phoning in and saying now that the trade embargo between Edmonton and Calgary was lifted in the Staios deal that they should trade Ignila to us for the 1st overall pick….I just chuckled.

          • If this was like 4 years ago and he wasn't making 7 million dollars, and if we weren't guaranteed a franchise player in the draft, then maybe. Thanks anyway Flames fans. I think we'll quit while we're ahead. And besides, do you really want to trade with us? How's Staios working out for you?

            *laughs hysterically at how bad we fleeced the Flames*

          • You're reaching on this Matthew Barnaby issue. If playing in the NHL made you a great assessor of talent how could Kevin Lowe have built such crappy teams? What about Darryl Sutter? The answer is pretty clear. Being an ex NHL player does not make you a great scout. Barnaby is paid to be a talking head with an opinion and a microphone.

            You should also stop freaking out about if Seguin will be able to repeat his success. If the pro scouts arent concerned I dont think you should either. It didnt bother the Hawks that Kane only had 1 year of Juniour under his belt.

            You're making it seem like taking Seguin would be a terrible mistake. You need to start warming up to the idea of Seguin because there's a 50% chance he'll be an Oiler in a couple months.

            PS. Looks like the scouts are a big fan of Percentage of Team Offence πŸ˜‰

          • I know that you know that assessing talent and being able to get that talent on your team is 2 different things…

            Has Lowe made some mistakes…sure, but has Lowe done some good things in Edmonton? Yes he has….

            And I know that you know that up until the lockout the Oilers were really up against it because of not being able to spend with the big boys…and now we're actually at a disadvantage because of the salary cap which is ironic I think.

            Any GM that works for the Oilers is always going to have a tougher time building winning teams than GM's in more desirable markets..

            Also I'm not freaking out about Seguin not being able to repeat…it's a fair question and one that makes me wonder as to why scouts rate him #1.

            I am warm to the idea of Seguin but not if I can have Hall…that's all I'm saying. I do think that if we pass on Hall and take Seguin instead that it will end up being a mistake…that is my opinion.

            Actually had a look at a Bob MacKenzie article today…in it there was some interesting stuff I didn't know. He says:

            "And by virtue of the No. 1 ranking, NHL central scouting has effectively tabbed Seguin as the best future consideration.

            That's probably a minority opinion with scouts who work for NHL teams, but it's not out of left field by any means. I know for a fact that at least a couple of teams which will pick in the Top 10 of the draft have Seguin rated ahead of Hall." end quote

            I didn't know what Central scouting consisted of but according to MacKenzie it seems that Seguin being #1 probably isn't as popular with actual NHL team scouts although it seems there are some.

            In any event I hope we get Hall and if we don't because he's already gone and we end up with Seguin….I'll be happy.

            Oh and that percentage of team offense thingy would have you wanting Martin St. Louis over Alex Ovechkin on your team πŸ˜‰

          • Well, the Oilers could at least afford St Louis πŸ˜‰ I always wondered why so many people wanted Lecavalier when St Louis was the better player at an affordable contract.

            Now, if St. Louis scored the same amount of points as Ovechkin but scored more goals, then you'd be onto something. Especially if those were 5 on 5 goals.

            I just dont buy the out-pouring of support for Matthew Barnaby's abilities as an amateur scout. I think it has more to do with who he picked than his credentials.

          • It was more an out pouring support of players who've had successful NHL careers knowing what it takes to play in and be successful in the NHL…next time it could be Mike Peca or MacT himself or anyone else who has played in more than a handful of NHL games.

            And I think you stating that scoring more goals especially if those were 5 on 5 goals being more important has more to do with who has that this season than who is really the better player.

          • I said it because I like egging you on about this. I knew as soon as Seguin was named #1 for the second time that it would rub you the wrong way.

            On the topic of Barnaby, all I'm saying is that I'm not taking the word of a part time TV analyst over the word of professional scouts.

          • I realized that, mine was return egging πŸ™‚

            Keep in mind professional scouts aren't always correct and also it sounds as though based on what Bob MacKenzie had to say that it's a minority of actual NHL team scouts who have Seguin #1.

            Seguin being rated #1 doesn't really rub me the wrong way…I just don't get it…it makes zero sense to me.

            If it makes your day I just heard Nick Kypreos say that if he were the Oilers he takes Seguin because he is the more well rounded player….myself I'm tired of the more well rounded player and am wishing for the more dynamic, explosive offensive player…but that's just me πŸ™‚

            ~all they had to say about Hall was that he was the type of player who can take over a game all by himself…I guess on second thought I'm not sure we'd really want that in Edmonton~

          • cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan

            how many games have you seen either one play live?

            just curious. before i waste my time pointing out these scouts have been watching these kids every game for the last couple of years, and you are probably sitting at home playing warcraft after a hard day mopping the floors at wal-mart.

          • Nice to see you have me pegged as to what I do as an occupation and what I do in my free time….

            There sure are a lot of condescending people on this site…are you really a cable guy? You shouldn't be degrading those that put in an honest days work mopping at wal-mart which is what your comment comes across as.

            I haven't seen either one play live. My opinion of Hall is totally related to his consistency as a hockey player, his accomplishments at the junior level, the type of player that he has been described as, his showing on the world stage and the fact that he handed Seguin his lunch during the recent playoff series…

            I guess from what I'm hearing Central scouting bases their opinions of who is rated #1 based on what they think things will look like 3 or 4 years down the road….I'm not really sure there is a science to that and can't understand how a player who has shown and accomplished as much as Taylor Hall can be rated lower than a guy with virtually no history to back up this #1 rating other than one year of good junior hockey…

            So tell me are the scouts that watch these kids so much always right in their assessments? How do some of these kids go from being rated high by these same scouts in October and drastically drop 6 months later? Some of them virtually drop right off the board. And this is just over 6 months. I'm supposed to believe that these same scouts know which of the two players is going to be better 4 yrs from now?

            I'll stick with the guy that has head and shoulders proved himself over and over and also shows up during the biggest games…and the guy who is better right now…

  • I think Nilsson had a good chance of getting taken on waivers this past year, not such a good chance any more. He's too expensive for what he brings and O'Sullivan's had the better career (although he's also expensive).

    And yes, I'd deal O'Sullivan for a draft pick, but I think any trade will involve salary back.

  • Jamie B.

    I'm sorry, they may be great guys off the ice for all I know, but on the ice O'Sullivan and Nilsson are absolutely the type of players who are plaguing this team. We can't get rid of all of them in one year, but they NEED to move out as many as they can before they're bringing young guys into this environment. Money and cap space are secondary to that imo.

    That's my concern with Moreau too. If they think he's still a "good leader" or a positive influence in the dressing room, fine. If not, they have to find somewhere else for him. I respect what Moreau's given us over the years, but this franchise can't afford to be "nice" anymore.

  • The Real Scuba Steve

    I went to Flame Nation to see how the fans are taking their team not making the playoffs lol the only person put in replies is RossCreek! lol and he is not happy. They must be very angry down in cow town.

  • Get rid of all three. If trades are not possible then you need to buy them out. Poor attitude. I think Moreau would look nice in Oklahoma. Moreau could provide some leadership on the farm.

  • Ducey

    I totally agree Willis,

    If you are not able to trade them, keeping them allows you to develop the youngsters slowly by keeping them on the farm or at least playing sheltered minutes.

    The team might look like:

    Hemsky – Horcoff – Penner,
    Hall/Seguin – Gagner -?,
    Brule- ? – ?,
    Jones – Stortini – Pouliot

    Cogliano may still be around (I hope), maybe Stone and JFJ but Moreau makes sense in the bottom six and O'Sullivan and Nilsson can take turns sitting in the press box or the AHL until injuries hit – and they will.

    Once Eberle is ready mid season they can try to trade one of O'Sullivan or Nilsson or waive them if they have not already. I expect that a playoff contender is almost certain to take Moreau and what little money is left on his contract at the deadline.

    There is no doubt that O'Sullivan has had a bad year, but he could have a bounce back season as did Penner this year and Souray last year.

  • Muji η‹—

    I would not buy them out for the following reasons:
    -We're not desperate for cap space next year anyway.
    -They won't "expire" next year if we buy them out.
    -They may improve next year (how could POS get any worse?!); if that's the case, their trade value would increase (above zero).

    The one negative I could see of keeping them around is that they're a bad influence to the other young guys… though that may be overrated.

  • Willis, you're a stats guy. How is POS significantly better than Nilsson, especially in light of the dollars they make respectively?

    I'm actually open to being convinced here, but from what I see as an uneducated fan, POS is a mopey-coaster that will only succeed in the southeast. For a difference of $925,000, I know who I'd waive.

  • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

    I agree with the article entirely and would add that it only makes sense to buyout people if
    A)Your team can't afford to pay them (we can), or
    B)You have someone else to fill the roster spot. If management really, honestly believes enough kids are going to make the team that we won't have the space for them, okay, send 'em out on a rail. If Omark and PJS need some more seasoning, however, I'm with Willis. Role the dice that at least one of the three can find their game.

  • I agree with the Moreau comment, I would do all I could to try and move this summer when teams have their budgets vs needs sorted out but the worst case scenario is they trade him at the deadline next year.

    As for O'Sullivan and Nilsson, I disagree with the notion that buying them out isn't a hockey move. Look back at last fall, before all of the injuries hit, this team had too many forwards on the roster. They were facing the possibility of waiving guys like Nilsson anyways.

    Not much has changed in that perspective. Counting the guys under contract and RFA's only they are at 14 forwards. Obviously that will change, or should change, but the point is still there that they currently have too many and getting rid of these two can help in that regards.

    But here's the crux of my point, they are also looking at guys like Eberle, Hall/Seguin and MPS possibly as being players next year. Now I am not suggesting that they pencil these guys into the line up no matter what but if they are truly ready then from a hockey perspective you have to play them. If it costs you 800k for an extra year then so be it, chalk it up to the cost of getting experience for what should be the true future of the franchise.

    And that doesn't even touch on the so called need to change the culture of the team. To me it only makes sense that those two are bought out this summer.

    • Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

      Those poor saps. I really don't know what they are going to do. I wonder if ownership will give Daryl one more chance, but he has to coach the team. If he can't coach the team he built then he is gone.

    • That's the spirit. Why should Oiler fans be arguing with eachother? The Flames were just eliminated and have no draft picks in the first 2, possibly 3, rounds.

      AND despite being outscored greatly in the head to head playoff competition with his rival Seguin has jumped from number 2 to number 1 in Central Scouting Rankings. No matter how you cut it, whoever the Oilers pick from those two, they're getting a stud prospect.

      Rejoice Oiler fans! There is nowhere to go but up!

  • Pajamah

    As per the Flames, I wonder what we were all saying as Oiler fans back in 2001-2004

    because that's where it seems they're at

    The Oilers only had Smyth, not much else, an weren't as young a team as the Oilers are now
    the suggestions of trading Iginla and going for a proper rebuild might mean in 5 years, the rivalry might be back in the playoffs

  • Can't believe that no-one has pointed out that most of Pink Floyd's epic tune Money is in 7/4 time. JDD plays goal in 7/4 time some nights. Bum BAH da bum bah bah bah Bum BAH da bum etc etc. No wonder no one can dance to it…

    Don't buy out anyone during the offseason unless there is a proven NHL roster player available and signed at less money to take his spot. Keep as many kids as possible in the A for another year, so they don't have to come up and learn to lose.

    If you run out of roster space during the season for some reason, send down the guy who is underperforming his contract worse than anyone else. If he gets plucked off waivers, NBD.

  • Why can't MPS come in and replace Ethan? He plays the same up and down game that Ethan does with 10 times the vision, and could help bring Horcoff back to respectibility. At least with him, we will take into account that there will be rookie mistakes but the room for improvement is ten fold. With Ethan, you get the rookie mistakes without the improvement.

    I've seen enough of Nilsson and O'Sullivan. I don't want to see anymore.

  • smiliegirl15

    Re: Hall vs. Seguin in the playoffs.

    When you have one guy who pretty much carries the team, it's pretty easy to neutralize that one guy so he really doesn't have a chance. Seguin would be my pick.

    They were saying today on Home Ice radio that Fowler dropped to 5th. Who moved up? I missed that part.

    Damn you Robin for putting up that pipe dream of picks one and two, ending up with both Seguin and Hall.

  • Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things

    If we lose the lottery ,do we also lose position to the lottery winner in rounds 2-7 ?Also , who owes us a second round pick this season ?

  • Tracie

    Hey Crash,

    I agree with you! I don't get why Seguin is rated number 1 when everyone says Hall is more NHL ready! Hall showed up and was one of the MVPs on the World Juniors, Seguin got cut. Hall showed up and his team swept Seguin's team in the playoffs, Seguin was held pointless…some ppl have said that Hall is the more dynamic player with no real weakness to his game, Seguin is the more all around player, but if Hall doesn't have a glaring weakness to his game, doesn't that make him an all around player as well? He might now be as responsible defensively, but if it's not a glaring weakness, then it's something he can work on, no?

    I've been a Hall supporter since December when it looked like we might get a good pick! And although all the reports and interviews I've heard of Seguin sound impressive, I haven't really seen anything impressive when it comes to the big stage (WJC, Playoffs). I agree that either one would be a great pick, I just don't understand how the ranking thing works…if one player is more ready then the other to be in the NHL, shouldn't he be number 1 since the goal of drafting players is to play in the NHL?

    Thanks for your points Jeanshorts. They make sense, to a point. Like you've heard many times before, these points can be argued for both sides until one of them actually goes number 1. Would it have been taboo to name both number 1? just curious…like I said, I don't really understand the whole ranking system so I'd like to get more insight into it.

  • I was just listening to the Head of NHL Central Scouting this morning on the drive to work (he was on the Team 1260). He said that the list was made and submited as of Game 1 between Hall and Seguin. That's why the series had no bearing on the list.

    Also, he noted that as a group they (NHL Central Scouting) dont project the rankings based on who will be better after year 1, they project for years 3 or 4. That's why the common belief that Hall is "more ready" to play in the NHL today doesnt automatically make him the best prospect.

    He also admitted that being a right handed centerman also helped Seguin's case. He pretty much said though that between the 9 full-time scouts they were always split 5/4 between who was #1, and they were swapping out who had the 5 votes and who had the 4. He re-iterated that he thinks this is a no lose decision either way.