ONLY 40 DAYS LEFT

Staying celibate for 40 days would be easy compared to asking the Nation not to debate the merits of Sam Gagner for the next 40 days. Seriously, I could write one sentence on what I think of Gagner and two paragraphs on a why Katrina Law, who played Mira in Spartacus: Blood and Sand, is a natural beauty, and the Nation would erupt in a heated debate over Gagner. That’s life in the Nation, and it is great, and thankfully there’s only 40 days left until the rookie tournament in Penticton.

I won’t be mentioning Gagner until camp starts, because once camp is here Gagner will give us lots to write about, so today I have a few comments on the Oilers and some issues around the league.

  • I read an interesting tweet from @capgeek regarding Shea Weber. It turns out he won’t be an Unrestricted Free Agent next season, because he didn’t play 40 NHL games in 2005-2006, so next year will be considered his sixth season. That gives the Preds an extra year to try and work out a long-term deal with him. 
     
  • In a Russian interview Alexander Frolov said his former teammate and still good friend, Sean Avery, used racial slurs to taunt opponents. Of course Frolov said he was misquoted once the story became viral, but I bet George Laraque wasn’t laughing.  Back in 2005, Big George accused Avery of calling him a "Monkey", which is eerily similar to what Frolov said in his interview. Laraque and I have butted heads a few times, but back then and even now he has never struck me as a liar. He was visibly upset in 2005 and the Frolov story proves he was right all along. I don’t mind trash talking in sports, but I have no tolerance if a guy uses racial taunts. The league won’t do anything about it, which is disappointing, but I hope Laraque feels a bit of vindication after reading Frolov’s comments.
     
  • Great news for Oiler fans regarding the home opener. Reports are Sidney Crosby is feeling good and barring a setback during the preseason or his first two regular season games; he should be at Rexall on October 9th. With the return or Ryan Smyth, the likely debut of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and a Crosby appearance, the home opener might be the toughest ticket to get all season. I hope you are one of the lucky ones who will be at Rexall that Sunday.
     
  • Using the arena vote in Long Island as a comparable to the Oilers situation would be misleading. They had a paltry 10% of eligible voters turn out and vote. The situations are different, the passion of hockey fans in each city is not close, and I guarantee if Edmonton had a vote, we’d see more than 30% of voters show up. The bigger issue with the NYI arena is the attitude of North Americans. In many cases we are much more vocal about things that bother us, compared to issues that we support. If we have a negative thought we will voice it, but if we like something we are more reserved in sharing that. It is unfortunate, and something I’d like to see changed, but I don’t see it happening.

    The rule of 3-33 comes into play. If you go to a restaurant and enjoy it, you are likely to tell three of your friends, but if you get crappy services you will tell 33 of them. (This is a ball park theory, so please don’t say it might be 2/22, the point is we are more likely to bitch than applaud.)
     

  • For those who think Nikolai Khabibulin is getting preferential treatment by only having to be in "Tent City" from 9 p.m. to 9 a.m. on weekdays, keep in mind that the majority of DUI cases get the same treatment. Most receive a "work-release" schedule that allows them to work during the day and come back at night. Like Khabibulin, they spend the entire weekend in the tents, but weekdays they are only there for 12 hours. I hope his stint in "Tent City" helps him realizes the error of his ways, and like anyone who has had a DUI, it will be his last. 
     
  • I’m very interested to see how Dillon Simpson looks at the WJC camp starting Wednesday. Some scoffed when the Oilers drafted him in June, but clearly the kid can play, regardless of his connections to Edmonton. I watched him play in the AJHL in 2009/2010 and he was dominant at 16. He didn’t get much icetime in North Dakota last year, but he’ll get lots this season. He has the skills to quarterback a powerplay and I’m curious to see how he fares with the other top under-20 D-men in Canada.
     
  • It sounds like the popular series "Oil Change" will return for a 2nd season, but no word whether it stays on TSN or if it moves to Sportsnet. Don Metz and his crew from Aquila Productions did an outstanding job producing it, and kudos to the Oilers for allowing their fans a glimpse into what happens behind the scenes. It will be interesting to see what transpired on July 1st wehn they made all the free agent signings and trades. 

KATRINA LAW

Just in case you haven’t watched Spartacus and don’t know who Katrina Law is. A natural beauty in my books.

  • Ned Braden

    When people realizethat gagner is a mistake and that the kid will never be better then a 3rd line center at best,even then he will be pushed around and be 30% at best in the face off circle. we should move now while there is some value there. Package him up will chorney and a pick and take something in return while you can now before training comes in .This way we are not talking about this kid in regular season and we can focus on the team and not this player again for the second then the third season…………….on, on,and on!!!!
    Lander will be our 3rd line center cheaper money for now and alot more up side in the circle.

  • Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"

    When people realizethat gagner is a mistake and that the kid will never be better then a 3rd line center at best,even then he will be pushed around and be 30% at best in the face off circle. we should move now while there is some value there. Package him up will chorney and a pick and take something in return while you can now before training comes in .This way we are not talking about this kid in regular season and we can focus on the team and not this player again for the second then the third season…………….on, on,and on!!!! Lander will be our 3rd line center cheaper money for now and alot more up side in the circle.

    i guess someone don’t agree. COMENTS

  • Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"

    snagapuss wrote:

    When people realizethat gagner is a mistake and that the kid will never be better then a 3rd line center at best,even then he will be pushed around and be 30% at best in the face off circle. we should move now while there is some value there. Package him up will chorney and a pick and take something in return while you can now before training comes in .This way we are not talking about this kid in regular season and we can focus on the team and not this player again for the second then the third season…………….on, on,and on!!!! Lander will be our 3rd line center cheaper money for now and alot more up side in the circle.

    pelhem grenville summed up what you are talking about quite nicely above. You like so many young men have no patience. When Gags explodes and become a very solid #2 center will you come on here and eat crow so to speak or rave that you liked him all along. He is 22 and so young he is still learning his place in this world and on an Ice rink. He will be a top 6 player in the NHL.
    We must be waking up? Big picture small kid lots of those. Never be top six here. Maybe Islanders at best.

    • Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"

      I really do not understand taking different parts of what I wrote and including what you wrote with in it as if you wrote it all. If you wish to comment and show the foolishness of my supposed wisdom, feel free! But leave my comments as mine please. There is a button that will allow you to include my foolish quote with in your document. For clarity I suggest you use it! You will be taken far more seriously. At least by me.

    • cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan

      for the love of god man, click the little frickin box that says “Include Quote in Reply”.

      i feel like a frickin code breaker trying to sort through the BS and more BS…

      /rant

  • Ned Braden

    Re: Khabby’s DUI sentence…
    Could someone please tell the editors at the Edmonton Sun that, OK, we get it. Sheriff Joe is a hard-ass. It sucks to get DUIs in Arizona. Khabby’s going to hate it in jail for those 15 days or whatever it is.

    The Sun has devoted far too much space and resources on that story. Sending a reporter down there to get “food critic reviews” on the prison chow from the inmates was mildly amusing but yesterday’s paper – in which Sheriff Joe suggests Edmonton could reduce its murder rate simply by enacting a death penalty – was gratituitous BS, even by the lower-than-low standards the Sun normally employs.

    The City of Edmonton could no more enact a death penalty than the province could. And Canada got rid of the death penalty, like, in the 1960s. It’s federal jurisiction. I certainly would not expect Sheriff Joe to know that but the Sun editors know that. Printing an article like that only serves to make them look bad.

    Of course, I read all of it out of a Sun that I purchased, so I guess I’m part of the problem.

  • Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"

    Gags has several things going for him that make him a keeper, Good hands, Good hockey sense = Brains. Excellent work ethic. Willingness to admit mistakes and learn from them, Teachable. This is what sets him miles apart from some players we have sent away even though their You-Tube videos were amazing. It takes about 7 years in the NHL to learn to take a face-off for most centers. Gags will be a big part of this team and when that happens many people who ranted will suddenly be buying jerseys. He is not going to be big and flashy but he is totally a team player. I will find it interesting to see how he does this year. Some say he is due for the break-out year and it may be now but I expect it will really just be beginning to show about February. Could happen sooner or latter but it will happen.

  • Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"

    We must be waking up? Big picture small kid lots of those. Never be top six here. Maybe Islanders at best.Even then will have to learn how to win face-off .Will never be a Marchant type player either . I think he was rushed in deveplement was not handle right. And really hurt this kid didn’t help up here.Needed first year or two in the minors or juniors

    • Quicksilver ballet

      I don’t think we can, we’re already saddled with 49 contracts, till that Fraser issue is settled we’re handcuffed.

      I was surprised to see Tambellini bring the Oilers up to that 48-49 contract threshold. One of the first things he did when he came in as General Manager was get those contract numbers down to that 45-46 range so he could take advantage of a situations like these. As far as grabbing someone off the waiver wire or taking on another bought out player, we’re hooped. White or Hunter are definately bottom half lineup players and we’re overloaded with players like this already. We need to add to our top 6 (hoping Hopkins is this guy) to go with a top two blueliner moreso than anything.

      • Horcsky

        Well thought out response. Makes sense. However I would argue that we need bottom half defensemen that are NHL proven and capable for next year. I’m not sure that Sutton and Barker fit those two criteria, while it sounds like Colin White would.

        • Quicksilver ballet

          Agreed, if Tambellini has a do over i’m sure he’d rather have White over Sutton. If Barker and Sutton are gone next summer perhaps Steve will get another shot at Colin next summer if that’s just a 1 yr deal with San Jose.

  • Does anyone else on this site agree in saying that our Third line this year could potentially one of the better 3 lines in hockey and be substantial outscorers to other third lines? Omark and PRV on the wings with your choice of Horc, Belanger? Not likely RNH, but for a home game who knows. Two years from now, “forget about it”.

    • Quicksilver ballet

      Once they put Lander between Paajarvi and Omark this may be the case. Horcoff/Smyth and Hemsky need to stay together and go up against the other teams first line some nights. Taking that into consideration, there may not be many teams around that can contain the likes of Hall,Hopkins and Eberle along with Paajarvi,Lander and Omark as a sometimes second and third unit.

      Now, if we could only fast forward two yrs….

      • Quicksilver ballet

        Have to believe on a long term deal on a team of his choosing, that number comes down to 6’ish.

        There are some cracks in that Nashville Predator foundation, to be competitive like the Preds are right now and not spending near the cap says alot about that market. Where would this franchise be without that 9 million per season in revenue sharing.

        Weber is available to the highest bidder next summer. With Lidstrom retiring, either Weber and or Suter end up wearing red soon with a much more friendly cap hit.

          • Quicksilver ballet

            Offer/trade, we’re splitting hairs. Who knows what Poile wants in return, maybe the Oilers have a blend of what David wants. Edmonton could be on Shea’s top 5 possible destination list. Have to think he’s gone before he’s UFA eligible.

        • Wax Man Riley

          Weber is available to the highest bidder next summer. With Lidstrom retiring, either Weber and or Suter end up wearing red soon with a much more friendly cap hit.

          Bingo!

          I think you hit it on the head. Next year one of them is going to end up across from Windsor, my bet wold be Weber, and for a long time.

          edit: Weber is an RFA next year so it may not happen until 2012/2013

          • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

            Makes to much $$$ for some of our penny pinchers I guess, makes me proud so many fans guard Katz pocket book so closely.

            Only in Oiler land is one of the highest scoring Dmen in the leauge a bad deal as the 11th highest paid Dman.

          • I have a friend who grew up in a house that never had food in the cupboards. Now she lives in constant worry of running out of food, to the point where she cant go into a store without buying things like peanut butter even though she has 3 jars at home.

            Thats how it is here. Years of watching our cupboards go bare have caused many an Oiler fan to protect the wallet of our local Billionaire, because the thought of watching our cupboards go bare again is too heartbreaking.

          • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

            Probably a good explination actually.

            I visit some sites that have fans from every team, no one worries more about $$$’s then Oiler fans.

          • Crash

            Funny thing is the Oilers already had this mobile, puck-moving, durable defender….but I don’t quite remember him being the highest scoring defensemen in the league while here and he wasn’t exactly that durable either. Perhaps if the Oilers could have added Getzlaf, Perry and Selanne when he was here it would have helped.

            The guy is also about to turn 35 yrs old….what would be the purpose of having him again? It appears on the surface as though he’s one of those I gotta play in California guys or he’s not happy.

          • Who wants to bet he’ll play more games and put up more points than Whitney? 35 or not, hes got plenty of game left.

            I like Whitney and what he brings…when he’s healthy. Theres no doubt that as of right now the Oilers lost that trade. The Ducks took the better player and dumped a health risk.

            A hockey player with foot deformities that require surgical correction? Sounds like a recipe for success.

          • Crash

            The questions are, did Visnovsky even want to be here? Would he be scoring more points here than he is/was with that Anaheim PP and yes I guess the health of Whitney will decide how the trade turns out. Whitney produced here at a pace significantly better than what Visnovsky did while here.

            The key is whether Whitney can stay relatively healthy as he has been tons better here than Visnovsky ever was. Time will tell. I”m not buying that as of now the Oilers lost that trade because if Visnovsky was still here he wouldn’t have the numbers he had with Anaheim. Didn’t the Oilers get a draft pick that turned into Brandon Davidson too? The final result of this trade is still a ways away.

            Visnovsky didn’t play complete seasons while here either.

          • I thought we gave up a pick in that trade. Its all about health. If those feet turn out to be all better then the trade is salvageable. Then all we need is Whitney to keep producing like he did.

            I think it was Willis who suggested that we really shouldnt expect him to stay at the levels he was showing for that brief stint. But you never know.

            I hope he comes back in the best shape of his life with feet that can handle the stress of playing 20+ mins a night in the NHL for 80 games a year + playoffs.

          • Crash

            I agree that producing at the level Whitney did will likely be tough but as this young team gets better I can see our d-men benefitting from it, especially on the PP.

            I too hope Whitney’s health won’t be an issue as he looks as though he is a fantastic fit here.

            Did a little checking and came up with this link. Looks like the Oilers got the pick in the trade and if I’m not mistaken it is Brandon Davidson that they drafted with the pick.

            Here’s the link:

            http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=519929

          • I always get that trade mixed up in my head. It’s a mental block. Like the guy in the office whose name you never remember even though you’ve been told a thousand times.

            Our Powerplay pretty much has nowhere to go but up. I cant imagine it getting any worse. Not with the likes of Eberle and Hall being another year older.

          • Ender

            It’s a natural protective measure built into our brain; we tend to repress traumatic memories. Little wonder the details are hazy. I bet you can’t remember the date we lost Mike Morrison on waivers either. See? I rest my case.

          • Crash

            Here, here on our PP getting better. I’m actually getting pumped about it. Having Smytty back in the fold should also go a long way towards showing these young guys what it takes to score goals in today’s game, especially on the pp.

            Net presence gets it done. Here’s hoping the young guys figure it out.

          • I didnt even factor in Smyth. What was I thinking? I dont even like Omark BUT I just had a vision in my head of Smyth wreaking havok in front of the net and Omark with the puck on the halfboards moving into the slot and I got pretty excited.

          • Crash

            I’m actually with you on Omark….I do want Omark to succeed though so I hope we’re wrong about him. I’m actually more pumped with the kind of numbers that Hemsky might be able to put up with Smytty’s net presence back in the fold and with now having more other weapons quickly developing around him.

            Not to mention the Oiers can now line Eager or Hordichuk up alongside Hall or Eberle, etc for a shift here and there if necessary to try to reduce the amount of punishment the likes of Bieksa, Barret Jackman, etc like to bestow upon the younger guys.

          • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

            Who cares if he’d be scoring as much/more here, he’d still be scoring plenty… more then likely enough to be a top point getter on the team and certainly enough to be 1st or 2nd in points amoungst dmen.

            Just admit it, they Oil still could win (or draw even) on the trade, but as of right now they’ve dug a huge hole.

          • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

            So you think we wouldn’t be better off getting Vishnosky back? And no the criteria of the this specific discussion isn’t Whitney or Vishnosky, it’s simply getting Visnosky back.

    • Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"

      We are not ready for that kind of coin. Not until we know what we got for forwards and what we will have to pay to keep them in the system long term.

  • Ned Braden

    Interesting that the Preds offered $4.75 when he made $4.5 last year. Kind of a slap in the face to your captain, no?

    $7.5 is a lot of money but if Brent Burns is making $5.76 and the 73 year old Human Rake is making $7.6 this year (cap hit of $4.9) it doesn’t seem that bad.

    So do the Preds move him or hang on another year and go through this again next summer?

  • Ender

    Ned Braden wrote:

    Interesting that the Preds offered $4.75 when he made $4.5 last year. Kind of a slap in the face to your captain, no?

    I’m thinking that the $4.75M was the ‘official’ offer as far as the arbitration hearing was concerned, and that it was only brought into play after Predators management met with Weber’s agent and couldn’t come to an agreement.

    If Weber had asked Nashville for something like $5.5M or maybe even $6M, they’d have likely got it done. The $4.75M and the $8.5M would only have come into play later; the real gap between numbers would have been much closer than that.

  • Ned Braden

    @ Ender

    I agree that they were probably offering something higher on a long term deal and I know that arbitration can get kind of nasty (ie Tommy Salo/Mike Milbury) but why go with $4.75 to arbitration when you know it is not even close to value for him.

    I don’t think Weber signs for $5.5/year even on a long term deal. Not after the deals that Ehrhoff, Wiesnewski and Burns just got.

    I don’t think Weber would take anything less that $6.5 over 12 years (similar to Keith deal considering increse in salary cap).

    • Ender

      I think it has everything to do with comparables. There are a lot more comparables for good D-men making four-and-a-half mil than there are at eight-and-a-half.

      Even the guys you mentioned – I recognize the deals are long-term, but notice the later years aren’t valued nearly as much, even a couple of years from now; the massive front-loading doesn’t represent current player value; it’s more of a signing bonus.

      Ehrhoff is either a $3.7M or a $4M cap hit depending on when he retires. Wisniewski is a $5.5M hit and Burns is a $5.7M. Nothing close there to $8.5M either. If you look at the top ten D-men in the league, you can find a few more examples of ‘signing bonus’ years above $7M but no one averages that. Chara is the closest, but if that’s your comparable . . .

      Bottom line, $4.75M was too low, but it wasn’t any more out of the realm of reason than Weber’s $8.5M and the Preds probably had some pretty good comparables to back their number up. I’m quite surprised Weber was awarded as much as he was.

      • Maybe those front loaded contracts actually helped Weber.

        Perhaps the argument wasnt “Look at the Cap hits for players X, Y, and Z.” Perhaps it was “Look at what Player X, Y, and Z are making per season compared to their expected production.” ie, What Keith is making in 2011 with the expectation that he provides X to the team. Not the average including years outside of his prime because that number doesnt apply to a single year deal while the player is in his prime.

        Weber’s number is the front loaded number without the following years at lower salary.

        • Ender

          Fair statement, but if that’s the logic then the arbitrator is ignoring the actual value-to-the-team of one prime playing year. Ehrhoff is going to get $9M for playing the 11-12 season. I don’t think very many people are going to try and pretend that’s anywhere close to the value that’s expected from him. What does a true $9M d-man’s stats look like? 80 points, plus-75, and averaging 30 minutes a night?

          If anything, perhaps the arbitrator is factoring in that Weber is jeopardizing one of those big multi-year front-loaded contracts by signing a one-year deal. If he has a bad year or gets injured, he might never see such a contract. That risk is worth something, I agree. Nonetheless, it’s the UFA’s that have paid their dues that should be signing those contracts. Weber got lucky here.

          • treevojo

            I’m back and I think I got lucky with chara, Keith and webber being the only worthy defenders. I will put an asterisk by lidstrom if he can duplicate past season which I doubt.

          • The way I look at it is that if Front Loaded contracts are becoming the norm then that’s the bed the owners and GMs are making, so that’s the bed they have to lay in.

            If Erhoff isnt worth 9 mill in his prime, then they shouldnt pay him 9 mill in his prime. They have to think about repurcussions (sp?) at some point.

          • Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"

            Is there logic to front loaded contracts from both a Cap goes up and a cap goes down point of view. If it goes down would it not be easier to get under the cap and if it goes up you have more room to sign a player. Am I wrong here?

          • Ender

            I think you’re looking at it wrong. Teams worry about caps, not players. To infer that front-loading has anything to do with the caps means that you think that this structure is team-driven. It’s usually not. Front-loaded contracts are player-driven. They want their money now, regardless of what life brings later. A team would (in most cases) want to back-load the contract so that if *life* happens and the player can’t fufill the final year(s) of their contract or if they get traded, the team isn’t on the hook for the big money.

  • geoilersgist

    I agree Ender. I think they only went to arbitration to give them more time to work a long term deal. Doesn’t make sense for the Preds to be the ones to file otherwise.

  • Ned Braden

    @ Ender

    I agree with what you are saying about the front loaded contracts of some of the players taking long term deals, but I don’t know if an arbitrator takes that into consideration.

    Does the arbitrator say “well Ehrhoff’s cap hit is $4 million and if he retires early it would drop it to $3.8 million” or does he say “Ehrhoff makes $10 million next year”?

    It would be interesting if the arbitrator provided some justification in writing to his ruling.

    • geoilersgist

      Thats why I said that, they filed for arbitration to make sure he stays a predator. It would be great if we got to see how it all went down with justification from everyone involved.

  • Ender

    Arch understood what I was saying, and he and I are of a mind on this. My ~~ were a subtle hint that we already had the guy and we turned him loose for a handful of magic beans. Maybe we’ll get a beanstock out of the deal and maybe we won’t, but I would rather have kept the cow.

    Vis come back? Absolutely. I just wonder what we would have to pay to get ‘our own stuff’ back. If Tambi can pull another ‘Ryan Smyth’ trade out of his ass, then thats fine. At this point, though, I doubt we’ll be able to offer anything Anaheim is interested in and the soonest we could sign him back as a free agent is 13-14.

    • Crash

      Respectfully…I’m not sure I understand how trading for Whitney who has career point per game numbers right on par with Visnovsky, is bigger, younger and seems to be a team leader can be considered magic beans.

      Granted it’s possible Whitney might be an injury concern going forward but hardly do I think he would be considered magic beans.

      Vis didn’t play a full season either of the years he was here and as he approaches age 40 I’m guessing his yearly games played numbers will also drop along with his production.

      At age 35 now I’m not sure he really fits into what is going on here plus I get this feeling he has no desire to be here.

    • Crash

      Intuition, opinion, his body language, some of the reporting making the rounds at the time or possibly innuendo and his reaction after LA traded him to the Oilers….not to mention his play while here.

        • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

          I believe he did request a trade… but like you said, nothing from his play would suggest he wanted out.

          I’d also bet him wanting out had more to do with how bad the team was then anything.

          • That’s exactly what I was getting at. He may have b*tched about being an Oiler to every media member in the city and had it tatooed to his forehead that he hated Tambellini. You couldnt have guessed that by watching him play.

        • Crash

          Yah I guess it was ok, not stellar, (not 1st or 2nd in the league scoring, or even close) but yes it was ok. His first year was cut short by 32 games which cuts into the durable theory and his 2nd yr here he was below his career average for points and also didn’t play a full year that year either.

          I’m not saying nor have ever said that he is crappy….what I am saying is the return for Visnovsky was good.

          Also if the Oilers were to sign him back here after age 35 they will be stuck yet again with whatever the contract is when he doesn’t produce like everyone wants or when he begins to miss more games because of age related injuries…you’ll have yet another unhappy fan base with an over 35 player in a bad contract who you can’t unload.

          • In his second year he ended with 45 points and was 6th in Goals by defensemen. He finished the season with more points than Weber and Chara and was 5 points out of top 10 in the league. That was despite playing most of the year on a sh*t Oiler squad that scored a total of 202 goals for on the year.

            I dont think it could have been classified as a bad year, or even an OK year. It was good. Very good.

          • Crash

            I guess we’ll agree to disagree…13 of his 45 pts came in the last 16 games playing in California. His pace in Edm would not have put him at 45pts which even still is just ok. He would have finished right around 25th in the league at his Edm pace with about 40 pts.

            You cherry picked his goal totals placing him 6th overall and ignored his assist total placing him 27th, his point total placing 14th and his +/- total placing him 261st.

            To me it sounds ok, not anywhere near what I’d consider Very good…but we may have different standards of what constitutes very good.

            Bottom line for me is how he looked as an Oiler…I could care less how he looks in Anaheim…how did he look here and did he even want to be here?

            I’m thinking the discussion is going nowhere and the point is being missed…

          • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

            Actually his Edmonton pace was 46 points.

            32/57 = .56PPG

            .56 x 82 = 46 points.

            His .56PPG pace with the Oilers would have been good enough for 18th league wide amoungst Dmen that played more then 15 games.

            I agree though, the point certainly is being missed, he’s a heck of a Dman and the team would be alot better off if he was here.

          • Crash

            I did the numbers based on the games he actually played in which was 73.

            If we are going to use 82 as the standard to tell us where a player would have finished then Ryan Whitney would have been comparable to Vis last year.

            Whitney was on pace for 63 pts.

            The points you’re missing is he didn’t want to be here…you said so yourself. And he was replaced with a comparable d-man who is bigger, younger, tougher, a better leader and just as good offensively. The only possible downfall is if Whitney continues to have health problems but that is still to be determined. Visnovsky’s downfall is he turns 35 yrs old this season

          • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

            No I get the point.

            However again, the discussion wasn’t Whitney vs Lubo it was whether having Lubo on the team would be a good thing…. check back to your first post on the subject… for some reason it seems like you think like having Lubo wouldn’t be a good thing.

            Oh and if you want it to be Lubo vs Whitney … we’ve been hosed so far. That could change, but right now we’re down by a big margin.

          • Crash

            Have a look at post #118…this is the post I replied to in #122…then post #123 is where Whitney gets dragged in to the conversation and it wasn’t me that dragged him in.

            I also don’t see this hosing you speak of or that we’re down by a big margin. Time will still be the telling factor.

          • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

            Yes I was talking about 122.

            Paraphrasing 118 sarcastically comments about why we wouldn’t need a guy like that (ie that we do in fact need a guy like that)

            Then 122 you question whether their is even a purpose of having him here…. with one of the worst defenses in the league, I’m pretty sure theirs a point to have a guy that good here.

            And if 45 more games and 40 more points isn’t a hosing, I don’t know what is.

          • Ender

            You beat the drum over and over about Lubo not wanting to be here. I ask you to provide context and you refer to ‘intuition’ (your spidey-sense is tingling?), reading his ‘body language’ (what – he slouched too much to like it here?), and cite various ‘innuendo’ (maybe the pizza-guy heard Lubo was sad?) and his reaction on getting traded (as though he would say anything to the media about being unhappy he was going to a new team.) Sorry, but it’s a whole lot of nothing.

            OB1 said he thought he remembered a trade request and he is usually pretty sharp, so I did some digging. I read all the published articles in the MSM and here on the Nation surounding the move. Not one single reporter or person involved in the trade alluded at all to the move being requested by Lubo. No one even hinted that he wanted out. Are you suggesting that not Brownlee, not Gregor, not Matheson, not a single person close to him had any idea, even after the fact, that he had asked to leave but that you know it to be true? That’s ballsy.

          • Crash

            I never once said anything about knowing it was true. In my response to you I noted a few reasons and I also told you my feeling was that he didn’t want to be here based on what I may have heard somewhere. I rarely make bold statements as though they are fact unlike yourself.

            I don’t make copies or take notes on everything that happens in the media at every point. I just thought I had remembered hearing it at some point but it wasn’t the whole basis on my opinion of the moving of Visnovsky out of Edmonton and what was sent back in return. Why are you not railroading OB for stating that he requested a trade? He must have heard something somewhere as well. I’m a season ticket holder, I go to games enmasse, I have an eye just like you do Ender. I have opinions just like you do Ender, and something about Vis while he was here didn’t seem quite right to me and my guess is and it’s just a guess based on what went down is that Vis did not want to be here. Go back and read it, it’s not stated as a fact.

            I think it’s more ballsy on your part to suggest that the Oilers traded Visnovsky for magic beans as if that were true. You make bold, ballsy statements in here all the time. Didn’t you suggest Boston would laugh in the Oilers face had they offered the number one overall pick this past draft for Tyler Seguin as though that were true and saying it as if RNH is nowhere near the class of your boy Tyler Seguin? That’s a ballsy statement. Or late last season when you suggested the Oilers would just make Souray play in the minors again this year and you mocked me when I suggested the Oilers will most certainly buy him out and get him out of the org. Was that not ballsy on your part?

            I notice that this is something that a lot of you and your small clique do in here when someone brings up a point or makes an opinion on something that doesn’t jive with yours. You hone in on one part of what was said and try to pick it apart, drill deep down into it when it really is a very small part of the whole discussion. Then you attempt to make that person feel like your inferior as if you are on some sort of self imposed pedestal. In some cases you guys like to resort to degrading other posters or out and out name calling. You’ve taken personal shots at others with regularity, especially madjam who to his credit never responds to you in kind. Degrading other posters is pretty ballsy if you ask me. Your post to me appears to fall under this category.

            Get off your high horse Ender…do you go to the games? Do you buy tickets? Have you been to the invite only Oilers gatherings for season ticket holders? Is it possible there are some people that just might know more than you do or may have heard something on the inside that you haven’t heard?

            Don’t put words in my mouth…I told you I had a feeling Lubo wasn’t happy here based on a few different things and based on the result of him being moved as well as what I witnessed myself. If I knew it to be for sure true I would not have stated it was a feeling. It was a very small part of my post to you about your magic beans statement and also included a comment on Lubo being 35 yrs old, yet you go after my comment about my feeling Lubo wasn’t happy here. Would you allow me the right to form my own opinion? I’m sorry that mine doesn’t always jive with yours and I don’t pretend to always be right and I’m ok with that.

            Are you ok with being wrong Ender? Because I hate to tell you this but it happens to you more than you think.

          • Crash

            that’s some funny sh!t. i especially like the part where he states his baby was very active (what rolling on the ground?) but couldn’t go outside cause of the poor cold temperatures…hahaha.

            my kids seem to be doing fine here, shocking.

            good find.

          • Crash

            I know what you mean…my kids did fine too…I seem to have made out ok also.

            IMO too much gets made of -30. The focus it gets is way overboard and gives outsiders the impression that it’s like that all winter…that temp is actually not that common..when it does happen it doesn’t usually last very long. Can the winters here get cold at times..yes sure but for the most part they aren’t that bad and outside activities are abundant.

          • Ender

            i will take the cold winters, once in a blue moon big tornado, and sometimes rainy summers over tsunami’s, frequent tornados, earthquakes, extreme heat lasting months, and all the other crap that comes with living somewhere other than here.

            although i am not sure i turned out ok….at least this seems to be the consensus.

          • Ender

            I give you props for finding that article. I hadn’t seen it before. It does seem to indicate that he hadn’t requested a trade, but it also talks about his being unhappy in Edmonton and that speaks to your point.

            I found a couple of articles from his time in Edmonton that talk about him being happy here, but I’ll concede that your piece is more recent and that his motivation for saying what he did is much less cloudy in your piece.

            I am ok with being wrong. We all are sometimes. In this case, I called into question whether you could prove he wanted out. And now you have. Good on you for backing up what you’ve said.

            I do make bold statements on ON sometimes. I never troll; if I say something, I mean it sincerely. Sometimes, like in believing Seguin is better than RNH, I have no way to support my argument. Call me on that, then, and we can agree to disagree; you’ll rarely find me trying to defend a statement that has no obvious proof. Sometimes we get it right, too. Even though I was surprised to see the Oilers buy out Souray this summer, I was one of the few people who saw him playing an entire season in the AHL. I think most Citizens here have indulged in speculation on things that have yet to be proven; that’s part of why we’re here.

            On the other hand, if we’re debating points that have already happened or are currently happening, then there should be facts to support our arguments. If someone’s opinion is “Management is stupid and everything they do is wrong” (not naming any names) then they should be able to point to specific examples that prove their point. If they can’t support any of their claims with real facts and refute counterarguments, then they become reduced to troll status.

            I’m sorry if you think I’m being hurtful. That’s not my intent. I do call out trolls once in awhile and maybe that’s something I’ll work on in the future, but I don’t hate anyone on here. If you have an opinion that I disagree with, I may ask you to back it up. Please don’t be offended; I would expect the same from you or anyone else here.

            Above all, Crash, I’ll be honest in letting you know I gained more respect from you in you posting that one single article today than I had ever had for you before today. We don’t have to agree, but we can still get along. No matter which of us is right on a given day.

            [salute]

          • Crash

            Fair enough on all points…the thing is though I knew I had heard it somewhere that Lubo wasn’t happy. I just never bothered at the time to make note of where it came from or who wrote it. I didn’t think it would ever be necessary to know.

            I never did say he had requested a trade, only that he wasn’t happy and didn’t really want to be here. I also could sense it just from going to the games and watching but that’s neither here nor there.

            I applaud you for coming back with this response. Quite often there are too many insults delivered in here when one faction disagrees with another. I try very hard to be respectful of everyone and don’t usually go off on someone unless they do so initially. Mostly because I’m not really that good at it…it makes me uncomfortable…I’m not a fan of it.

            I guess it was the pizza boy reference and the spidey sense comment that set me off this time around as well as the reference that I claimed something was true when I never really made that claim. I actually applaud you and those that call out trolls…it’s the trolls that really need the tuning.

            I am in complete agreement on the fact that disagreeing with someone doesn’t have to turn into a tirade complete with insults. Getting along with other posters is definitely my preference. Even heated back and forths can be done in a civil manner. I actually enjoy a good back and forth debate.

            I appreciate the salute…all is good

            Handshakes all around

          • You dont think that playing on a team that scored more than 206 goal would likely have increased his assist total?

            I didnt cherry pick anything. I gave you an example of how good he was in a very important field compared to the rest of the defensemen in the NHL.

            It’s not like I grabbed an obscure secondary stat that sounds like it was made up in my head like RelCorsi/60 X Fenwick/the weight of Tommy Salo’s left skate blade. It was Goals. Pretty standard and important stat.

            My classification for very good would be top 20 in scoring by defensemen even though you play for the 3rd worst offensive team in the league and you are literally the only weapon the team has on the blueline. Is that too specific?

          • Crash

            If we were discussing and debating his +/- stat would you use the same logic and say that shouldn’t I expect his +/- numbers to improve with him playing on a better team that scores more goals and gives up less?

            But yet this stat was worse in Anaheim for him.

            Having said that, yes I would expect playing on a team with Getzlaf, Perry and Selanne making up the PP unit I would expect the numbers to be better but all I’m concerned with as a fan is how the player plays while he’s playing on my team and to me Visnovsky’s season that year was ok, just ok.

            Yes you gave me an example of how good he was in a very important field compared to the rest of the defensemen in the NHL and sold it as being the reason he had a very good year. You ignored how he fared while in Edmonton, you ignored that he wasn’t top 20 in assists overall and that he wasn’t on a top 20 pace while in Edmonton. You also ignored his +/- numbers which were abysmal (261dst overall)

            I classified his year in Edmonton as being ok, not awful and not in the very good department. And how did he become the only weapon the Oilers had on the blueline when they still had Sheldon Souray (who had 53 pts the year before) and Tom Gilbert who was coming off a 45 pt season. Both were top 20 d-men and now you are saying they shouldn’t be classified as possible weapons on the blueline.

            It seems now that you are making excuses for Visnovsky.

            I digress, anyway, the insinuation appears to be how the Oilers really screwed up by trading Visnovsky and replacing him with Whitney, yet when you look at the numbers, nothing as of yet was really lost. Whitney’s career numbers are very comparable to Visnovsky and what you also keep ignoring is that apparently Visnovsky did “NOT” want to be here and asked to be traded.

            Anyway, I’m done with this debate…over and out.

          • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

            Not sure how you could say his play wasn’t steller. He was one of, if not the best Oiler in his time here.

            You don’t need to be top 2 in league scoring to consider your play steller.

          • Crash

            Based on what? On you saying so once again so it must be?

            He didn’t even play here 2 full years and his 1st year was cut short..he only played 50 games and finished behind Souray, Gilbert and Grebeshkov in scoring in year one.

            I’m not sure how you can declare his play as being stellar during his time here but so be it. I don’t think he was awful but I wouldn’t call what he gave us as being stellar…not offensively, not defensively, not in toughness, not in leadership and not in showing he wanted to be here.

          • OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

            Based on common sense.

            Both statistically and “by eye” he stood out almost every game.

            It’s not even like he had much competition, those were 2 pretty piss poor teams, not sure how anyone could look at those two teams and come to the conclusion that he wasn’t one of the best players.

  • Quicksilver ballet

    I agree with Crash. Lubo did what he had to and eventually got what he wanted without the messy parts. I’d be surprised if Hemsky signed an extension, i think he’s doing the same thing right now.