GDB 49.0: DEBATE IN DALLAS

Four years ago the Taylor vs. Tyler debate was just beginning. For the next six months both sides debated the merits of Hall and Seguin. The Oilers chose Hall and the Bruins happily settled for Seguin. Four years later both have developed into dynamic offensive players and both of them still have room to improve.

The debate isn’t as intense as it was four years ago, likely because both are producing and both fan bases are happy with the player the drafted, or in Boston’s case the players they received when they traded Seguin, but their individual success means the debate will continue and maybe even intensify in the future.

They play different positions, and in their first three years they played for teams at opposite end of the standings spectrum. Hall was saddled with the pressure of being the face of a franchise, while Seguin got his feet wet being surrounded by great players and winning a Stanley Cup.

When Seguin was traded to Dallas this past summer he was thrust into a situation similar to Hall. Both of them will now be looked upon to lead their respective franchises to the playoffs, and in the incredibly competitive western conference that won’t be an easy task.

This year their offensive totals are very close.

Hall has 18 goals and 43 points in 41 games.
Seguin has 21 goals and 41 points in 43 games.

Seguin is playing with Olympian Jamie Benn and Russian man-child Valeri Nichushkin. They’ve become a very dangerous line, and I’m curious to see Lindy Ruff will match the Seguin line against Hall’s line tonight. Ruff would get a better matchup playing Seguin vs. the Arcobello line; however, many coaches know that their best players like the challenge of playing against the other team’s top line. 

I’d argue that the Seguin trio is just as much of a challenge as facing Sidney Crosby’s line, and a bit different due to the size of Benn and Nichushkin.

Hall and Seguin will forever be linked together, and four years later I still think Hall is slightly ahead of Seguin, but only by the slimmest of margins. 

LINEUP

Hall-RNH-Gagner
Yakupov-Arcobello-Eberle
Perron-Gordon-Hemsky
Jones-Smyth-Gazdic

Ference-J.Schultz
Marincin-Petry
Belov-N.Schultz

Bryzgalov

No reason to change the forward lines. Keep them together and try to build some chemistry. I understand why coaches changes lines frequently, even the top teams do, but I’d keep the top-three the same for a few more games just to see what happens. 

Corey Potter is back skating, and the only player you might take out for a game is N.Schultz because he’s playing the right side. I wouldn’t do it, but that seems like the only option on the blueline.

QUICK HITS

  • The dilemma facing Craig MacTavish over the next eight months will be deciding how he wants to construct his blueline. Martin Marincin has looked good, albeit in only ten games, and if he keeps playing well do the Oilers plan to have him in their top-six next season along with J.Schultz, Jeff Petry and possibly Darnell Nurse?

    That would be three D-men in their top-six with less than 130 NHL games, and Petry will have less than 240 games under his skates. I don’t see them succeeding with that much inexperience on the blueline. For me, Nurse will need to be incredibly good to last more than nine games. Inserting more youth into the lineup won’t help. If all four of them make it, that means two of them will be paired together. I know Marincin and Petry have played together the past few games, but it is asking a lot of Marincin to be a top-four D-man next year.

    I would bring ensure I have at least three proven, steady veteran D-men at the start of next season, and if the young kids play well enough to keep them, then at least you will have some insurance when they hit a rough patch. I’d err on side of caution and start with more veterans and less youth on the blueline next October.
     

  • I agree with Willis that Petry is a competent NHL D-man, but my issue with him is his consistency at key times of the game. For instance during the 5-on-3 vs. Chicago. Petry has control of the puck, but can’t clear the zone. Keith keeps in it, and seconds later it is in the back of the net. Petry has to get that puck out of the zone. We don’t know if the Hawks could have regrouped, re-entered the zone and scored, but not getting the puck out allowed them to stay set up.

    Petry is a competent D-man on a bad hockey team, but I’m not sold he is a guy you build around. He might be a good complementary player, but I don’t see him as a backbone defender.
     

  • Ales Hemsky will be traded. Why would he re-sign in Edmonton to be the #3 RW. By March 5th, Eberle and Yakupov will still be on the team, so the Oilers won’t be able to guarantee him a spot in their top-six at that time. They could roll the dice and keep him with the hope they move one of the other two, because their value is higher, before free agency starts and convince Hemsky to stay, but I doubt that happens. So rather than lose him for nothing, he will be dealt before the deadline.

    There is a large contingent of fans and media who don’t like Hemsky, but you can’t overlook his skill. How many forwards can walk around Duncan Keith and score like he did on Sunday? Of course you’d like to see that more often, but that play is why opposing GMs will still be intrigued by Hemsky. Hemsky has basically been playing in a 3rd line role this year, but he has the skill to be a top-six forward. He is still fearless on the ice, and I suspect he will have success in a new situation.

    The question is what kind of return will Hemsky fetch? Teams have always overpaid for players at the deadline. An aging Robyn Regehr got Buffalo two 2nd rounders last year. The Sabres also received a first rounder for Paul Gaustad a few years ago. Every GM is willing to pay something different. MacTavish must be hoping Hemsky plays well at the Olympics, because a good showing there will increase his value significantly. 

TONIGHT…..

GAME DAY PREDICTION: Hall and Seguin each finish with two points, but the Oilers lose a close game 5-4.

OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: Martin Marincin has another strong game giving hope to beleaguered Oiler fans that in the future the blueline will eventually improve.

NOT-SO-OBVIOUS GAME DAY PREDICTION: Many of the Nation readers will send emails to Kate Beckinsale’s fanmail account after noticing she isn’t wearing a ring in the above photo. Good luck fellas, if any of you get a response let me know, we will post it on the Nation. After the Oilers loss, many will numb the pain by watching Underworld.

RECENTLY BY JASON GREGOR 



  • HardBoiledOil 1.0

    I can see the debate over which player (Hall or Seguin)is better continuing for the rest of their careers. They are both excellent young players and I don’t think we’ve seen the best from either one yet.

    In my mind however I’m glad we took Tyler.

  • I still think it was a huge mistake not to draft Nichushkin, huge!! Size, skill and plays a little mean. No offense to Nurse, but I don’t see the same upside.

    I like Petry but he is a butter soft player, not competitive (tough) enough for me.

    Hall all the way, Seguin is good and lord knows we need him in the worst way, but Hall’s the better player.

    I feel better about the return for Hemsky then I do for Gagner should they trade them both.

    Do the Oilers trade Smyth, Bryzgalov & Dubnyk by the trade deadline?

    I keep hearing the Oiler will turn a corner here the last 40 games, I don’t see it, the Oilers will be off loading competent NHL players and replacing them with AHL talent, that will start taking place shortly, so unless the Oilers push January (doubtful) and Feb is a write off, come march this team will be stocked full of AHL talent for the remainder of the year.

    29th overall = Ekblad.

    • pkam

      Nichushkin is playing on the RW in Dallas, he would not have taken a spot on an AHL team. So unless the Oilers could have traded one of their RW for some value, where would Nichushkin play on this team, and what incentive would he have had not to just bolt back to the KHL.

      Keep in mind at the time Yak was coming off a great rookie campaign.

      That Benn, Seguin, Nichushkin line could grow to be one of the most dangerous top lines in the game.

      I actually think Hemsky will resign here as he did not want to be traded last time. So playing on a bottom dweller really doesn’t seem like it bugs him. And for all the hope that he will actually get traded for something of value, he has played pretty well this year in whatever role he’s been asked. The last blues game I watch him get absolutely wall papered to make a play. Lots of respect for that. I’d much rather see them trade Yak or Ebs as the return would be greater, and they might actually get either a big RW, 2nd line centre, or solid top 2 D.

  • HardBoiledOil 1.0

    Petry is a good defenseman, but it’s hard to judge our defence this year under Eakins defense always system.

    This system has turned off any opportunity or ability for the defence to join and support the play. It’s only when we are behind in a game with two minutes left that you see any defenceman taking a chance.

    Without exception every defenceman has regressed under this system and your advanced stats will prove it!

  • HardBoiledOil 1.0

    Don’t get this # 89 on the first line! This guy is a total boat anchor. Move Eberle back up, at least you would have one strong line. Gagner should be on the third. Oh, right his defensive game is sheet.

    Hemsky goes back to his cocoon for another 15 games , or will hat rare goal inspire him to get more.

    • Zarny

      What don’t you get?

      Trade deadline is March 5th. Gagner is being shopped around. It’s called showcasing.

      And now that Gagner is healthy he’d be fine on the 2nd line. The only problem is he doesn’t compliment Nuge well.

      • Bucknuck

        I think he would be a better “showcase” on the third line ! Playing against other teams top lines will not enhance or showcase his skill. Would look better down the line up , I think.

        For what its worth I use to be a big supporter of Gagner, but his game seems to have gone in the ditch big time. Man he’s only 24. You would think after 6 years he would at least be a better face off man. Didnt Take Arco six years.

        • Zarny

          Don’t underestimate the impact of Gagner’s broken jaw; both physically and psychologically as to why his game has been in the ditch.

          Gagner’s strength is his offense. Very little offense is generated on the 3rd line not to mention fewer minutes. On the top line with Hall and Nuge is Sam’s best chance to have his offensive strength’s showcased.

          In terms of faceoffs Gagner suffers from physical limitations. He’s undersized. Arco is a year older and only 50.4% for FO. He might be better than Gagner but he’s not good.

          Gagner is healthy now and his offense will return. Over 82 games you can bank on 55-65 pts for the next 7-10 years. He’s never going to be big, or really good defensively or great at FO’s which is why long term he doesn’t compliment Nuge well.

          Like you said though he’s only 24. He’s just entering his prime. He’ll be better over the next 7 years than he was the previous 7 years.

  • vetinari

    Hall by a nose…perhaps but I think things have shifted hugely this year. Hall’s development seems to be stagnant whereas Seguin continues to get better and better. TH’s point total is on the same pace as it was last year (50 in 45 games vs. 45 in 42 games)but his +/- is disastrous at -15 this year and -22 career. He is on pace for a -30 season! This means he has been on the ice for 1/3 of the Oilers regular strength goals against. Chances are when Hall is on the ice the Oilers are more likely to be fishing the puck out of their own net than celebrating! Hall’s point totals surpass Tyler Seguin’s career totals, but it is clear that the development trajectory for Tyler is much better. Consensus amongst NHL scouts was that when the Oilers drafted Hall (Yakupov) they left the better players on the board. You don’t get to be the best in the NHL by taking the second best players in the draft!

  • HardBoiledOil 1.0

    You know, I’d like to believe this will continue to be of debate, of this continuing. But that said, if Hall is stuck on a perennial bottom-dweller, sooner or later this talk will fade out. Not saying Dallas is a real winner, but people care a lot more about debating between players on competitive teams. If the Oilers cant get it together over the next 4-5 years, Hall will likely just be one of those players who “could have been, should have been” so great, but was limited by the crap he was mired in…

  • Admiral Ackbar

    Do you go to ON each day to see if they have finally fired someone in management , or to see if a good trade has come ? MacT. appears to have turned into Tams , unable to do anything of consequence to improve on ice performance once season starts . Obviously with the mazes of people he must get approval to make moves , like Tams it never comes to fruition , or it comes to late and another team snaps up that opportunity . I doubt being a new GM has much to do with it , it’s more the mazes preventing acting boldly and swiftly .

    I wonder if management should not apply same philosophy to themselves as they do to the players : if they are not contributing to better the team and results , then they should be let go one way or the other ? They know the problems but as a group obviously cannot readily enough to rectify them . Two many chiefs or cooks in the kitchen by the sounds of it ? Like promoting people to a higher degree of incompetence at times ? A MacT. decision seems more like a group decision , and the group has not done well and retard efforts to make our on ice product any better .

  • A-Mc

    The oilers aren’t going to go from bottom feeders to stanley cup champions over the summer. We all know we need #1/2 defensemen but they are likely home grown.

    Realistically speaking if we can snag a couple #3’s over the summer, it’ll go a long way towards seeing the Oilers climb out of the pits of hell that they’ve been in for the last 8 years.

    TLDR; we want a show stopper trade for a stud D but if we can’t get that, can we please get a couple #3’s to get us headed in the right direction!

    • HardBoiledOil 1.0

      While I agree with your premise that they will not climb out of this overnight, and that the best top D are home-grown, I think you overestimate the ability to climb out in any reasonable period of time. The Oilers won’t be able to have any truly serviceable, top 4-Dmen that they developed themselves for years still. It takes dmen longer to be really NHL ready, and we need them to be the kind of guys who would be top-4 pairing guys on contending teams, not just the Oilers. That is going to take a lot of time–imho, probably 4 years before we see glimpse of the kind of dmen we really need. 4 years from now to see GLIMPSES.

      That’s still a long time for people to need to be patient, and watch as holes are filled temporarily and shoddily, waiting for the saviors/young-homegrown-D to arrive

      • A-Mc

        I didn’t overestimate anything. We both agree that home grown has the best chance of anything close to a #1/2 D. We both agree it takes a LONG time for even a star young player to turn into something useful.

        All i said is that i would like to see a couple #3’s added to the roster so that we can start seeing improvement. 2x #3’s wont get us the playoffs, but they will help us to start advancing.

        An extremely successful summer, to me, would be to start the next season with 2x top 4 defensemen, 2x bigger forwards and a decent starting goalie. That’s a big wish list! But with even these changes, i dont think the Oilers are a solid playoff team.

  • S cottV

    Oilers probably did the right thing, but both players have merits and no real loser on the deal.

    To me the biggest draft issue where the Stars kicked our ass, involves Jamie Benn in 2007.

    Geez – would Benn ever look good, as one of our top 2 centremen.

    Oilers took Sam Gagner, Alex Plante, Riley Nash, Linus Omark and Milan Kytnar – over Jamie Benn, who went #129.

    Ok – Benn was playing in the BCJHL in Victoria before the draft, but still – the Oilers should of been aware of him. Edmonton is a lot closer to Victoria, than Dallas is.

    • HardBoiledOil 1.0

      The scouting staff has been very bad for a few years. They are very indecisive, this has to be a major concern. Doobie over Schneider, cream puff Pouliot over Parise it goes on and on.

  • S cottV

    It was rumored the Bruins wanted Eberle and Hemmer, for Seguin at the draft.

    Imagine if we had made that deal?

    Hall – RNH – Gagner? (Who knows)
    Perron – Seguin – Yak

    Balance and strength down the middle for a decade. Anyone not make that deal now?

    • HardBoiledOil 1.0

      but Yak and Gagner on the right side for the top 2 ? i dunno about that, though the Oilers would have likely drafted right winger Nichishkin instead of Nurse last draft.

      • S cottV

        Yes – would have worked but Seguin is probably not the ideal compliment with RNH – as the top 2 C’s. You wouldnt get enough diversity with RNH and Sequin.

        RNH is pretty soft (will get a little harder in time) and the better compliment would be Benn-like or Backes-like.

        Follow up a high skill guy with hard to play against tank.

        Use the tank – at home vs certain opposition 1C’s where that match up is in our favor.

    • pkam

      You guys keep complaining that this Oilers team is too small and too soft, then you argue adding Seguin will balance and strengthen the middle?

      He is 195 lb and has only 22 hits in 43 games, and has less hits/games than any of our small and soft forwards.

      Even Gagner had more hits (23) than him even though Sam played 8 less games and was with a broken jaw in most of those games.

      Not saying he is a bad player, but how can he fit into our roster when we keep saying we need to get bigger and tougher?

  • Zarny

    My perspective is I have been involved in hockey for over 50 years. I grew up in professional hockey dressing rooms as my father played professionally. I played up to the junior level and have had extensive minor league coaching experience.

    I have a number of observations. First, I think Coach Eakins has lost the room. This is a much better team than they are currently playing–even the defense .and goaltending.You cannot tell me from a talent level Calgary shoulld be ahead of them in the standings. Teams like Colorado,, Tampa Bay,Dallas, Carolina,Montreal are arguably no better or not much better on paper But there are getting much better coaching. I find Eakins very flat behind the bench. I think this team needs a more animated coach to instill more fire. Also there seems to be very little communication or collaboration on the bench with the other coaches which I find unusual. Maybe they have split into factions or are just pissed off at each other. One could predict this dysfuntionality when you come here with 2 holdover asst. coaches who are close friends of management and the one coach you get to pick you have his son on the team and you are put in the awkward position of having to cut him. I think dallas would have had a lot more credibility with his players if he had brought hiis own coaching staff and not a coach who immediately has a perception problem because his son is playing on the team. Also we have had more than our bad calls this year with the refs. I think a head coach should be working the refs rather just appearing to be oblivious most of the time. If you watch seasoned coaches like Hitch or particularly Torts they work the refs when they get a bad call and this seems invariably to having an impact in getting calls evened up later. Also these coaches have much better body language when there teams get scored on which i think this is important as players feed off their head coaches when adversity strikes. One final issue I lwould like to raisedI would like to raise is why is OKC using different defensive systems than the parent team. Rocky Thompson was recently interviewed on radio and said they were using systems they had been using for the past 3 years in the A.H L and it sounded like they had rejected using Eakins’s systems. I do not think this is very good when you have so many players going back and forth.
    I think then Eakins has to go along with his entire coaching staff. This is going to get worse before it gets better.I would suggest bring Todd Nelson and his staff ( like Maurice in Winnipeg) for the rest of the year to see what they can do. They deserve a chance. If it doesn’t work you can find a more experienced coach in the fall. This time interview a number of candidates and get a headhunter to help .you. One final comment–Lowe has to go- more on that later. I will provide my own top 10 list.

  • Rdubb

    YES, we’d all like to see Hemsky do that more, BUT, HE DOESN’T!!! He dangles on the blue line, & loses the puck, or he gets over the line and does a drop pass which the other team then gets, or, he turns it over before he does his dangle & or drop pass…if give aways were done in a way that we all understood, than I am sure Hemsky would be in the top 10 of the NHL…not only that, I think the guy has 0 leadership skills and is NOT GOOD for the younger guys on the team, why? Because he is almost always the last on the ice and first off the ice @ every practice, and this comes from the entire media core. He is also last (or close to it) in coming to rink and again first (or close to it) to leave the rink, at both games & practices. NOT the sign of leadership or off someone who wants to be on or around this team.
    And, I see (hear) the same about Yak, albeit in a different sense. Yak loves the game and everything about the game, he just doesn’t want to change how he plays, even though he has the worse +/- in the entire NHL, wouldn’t that alone encourage anyone that their game needs to be improved upon?
    Yaks best games come when he uses his body, hits people, skates hard, dumps pucks in when in is called for, passes when it is called for & shots when in the open. We all wish he’d play like that more often, as do his coaches, but he doesn’t. I am 100% positive that his ice time would climb drastically if he played like that every game. Eakins just can’t get through that kids thick headed skull, he is too hard headed, & if his attitude doesn’t change, he’ll get traded from EDM, then get traded again & again & will eventually find himself in Europe of the KHL, & if he stays in the NHL, he’ll be a 3rd or 4th liner while being a pp specialist…
    Just my thoughts
    PECK

  • Serious Gord

    Re: Tyler vs Taylor

    First I will state what my position was at the draft: I felt that the oil had no choice but to draft hall. No one could pick Seguin over him as hall was the two-time Mem Cup MVP.

    Had Lowe/tambo picked Seguin they likely would have been second-guessed long after both players were dead and buried (literally).

    I thought then that they were very very close in promise with Seguin having a slight advantage because in addition to being roughly equal in abilities he was a centre and almost a year younger.

    Today I think that they still are very much equals with Seguin being slightly better in shot and hockey IQ and 200ft play. And should they both stay healthy the debate will continue.

    The better “what if” is:

    Would both players be better today if they had been taken by opposite teams:

    Hall was and is a far better fit on Boston than he is here and a centre of Seguin s abilities are in acute demand while the bruins have a surplus at that position.

    Had that happened the oil IMO would likely have made the playoffs at least once by now and the bruins would have one more cup.

    • Jason Gregor

      Hall was and is a far better fit on Boston than he is here and a centre of Seguin s abilities are in acute demand while the bruins have a surplus at that position.

      Had that happened the oil IMO would likely have made the playoffs at least once by now and the bruins would have one more cup.

      Sequin is so good that he would have made the Oilers that much better defensively? Really? Please enlighten me how Seguin instead of Hall would have improved the Oilers enough to make the playoffs.

      They missed playoffs by 35 points Hall’s rookie season.
      They missed playoffs by 21 points in 2012.
      They missed playoffs by 10 points last year in only 48 games.

      Any suggestion that Seguin in place of Hall would have led to a playoff spot is purely laughable.

        • Zarny

          The cutoff date is usually middle of September ish so Hall would have been one of the older kids in the draft with a late ’91 birth date. Seguin is only 2.5 months younger though and there would have been plenty of kids younger than he in 2010.

          Could just be that if Hall was 2 months older he would have been in the 2009 class.

    • Bucknuck

      The Oil would not have made the playoffs in any of the last four years because they have never had the horses on Defense. They need the same thing they have needed since 2007, a competent Defense.

      Until they get that missing piece, they will not make the playoffs.

      Hall has single handedly won games, and I am sure Seguin has done the same thing. I can’t see having one over the other would be the magical ingredient.

      • Serious Gord

        Perhaps I overstate. With Seguin there would not have been a surplus on the wing; some pressure would have been taken off of gagner (I doubt he would have been traded) and Horcoff.

        • pkam

          Not sure what you are talking about. Hall is a LW and we never have surplus on LW, and we don’t even have any surplus on wings until we draft Yak. So how do you know 3 years down the road we will draft another wing.

          If you really want to use the surplus in wings as your argument, perhaps you can do it for Yak’s draft year. But it will be very lame for Hall’s draft year.

  • Spydyr

    It used to be fun coming here and say Gagner is weak and Dubnyk is not a starter. People would argue with me constantly. Now we all agree well, most of us anyhow.

    Soon it will be size beats Smurf. It might take a while for the stats guys to get onside with that one.

    Finally to all of those who used to bring up Gagners eight point game as a reason to keep him.Still think that?

    • Admiral Ackbar

      I’ve been saying the Oilers are a bunch of midgets, fairies and dafodils for years – now people are finally catching on! We are the laughing stock of the league, overvalue our assets and can’t even make a LITTLE TRADE! Time to recall Mike Hunt!

  • A-Mc

    In a article elsewhere today Eakins was quoted as saying he sometimes forgot Hemsky was on the bench and apologized for his missed icetime. Another scathing indictment of Eakins ineptitude. Hemsky probably cant get out fast enough.

    • Arius Mumin

      GIve it a break, or give me 8 reasons why Kevin Lowe should lose his job.

      You and the rest of the sad bandwagon jumpers have no base for your arguement, you’re just lower tier fans who needed an opinion and that was the most common and acceptable one.

      What tier do the fans that only see the Oilers on highlights fall into?

      Is it Kevin Lowe’s fault that Gagner needs 15 years to develop and can’t get right?

      Is it Kevin Lowe’s fault that Eakins is more concerned with Terry Jones health than the PP?

      Is it Kevin Lowe’s fault that the GMs around the league don’t want to trade with Oilers when it might stand to benefit them?

      Is it Kevin Lowe’s fault that Eberle is allowed to play like his dad owns the team?

      Kevin Lowe has the Oilers best interest in heart. It is not his fault that most of the fanbase that follows his team has very little individual thought when it comes to the Oilers. If Bob McMoses said it then it must be true.

      • Bucknuck

        Pretty sure this is tongue and cheek, folks. Anyone who has paid attention to the comments on this site knows that defending Lowe is currently out of fashion.

        I was satisified when Tambellini got the boot, and I will wait until the 20 game mark of next season to make up my mind about Eakins and MacT.

        If MacT/Eakins can’t get a winning record by that point, then Lowe, MacT, and Eakins should all go. Until then, I will enjoy the little victories (Pens), and hold down my bile when they stink (StL).

      • Word to the Bird

        Buddy, here are 8 reasons : 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 years.

        No, it’s not Lowe’s fault Gagner can’t play defense after all these years in the league. But Gagner is still here, getting rich.

        Count the coach’s, then count the GMs over the years KStupid has been running the show .

        Bucky and OwnGoal? What else needs to be said? KLowe’s boys!

        Public relations as a top corporate executive? “We have two types of fans; some we like, and some we don’t like so much.”

        Bro, we are talking loser here. Decent coattail riding DMan. Pathetic executive allowed to play with a toy that means a lot to Oiler fans and the city, but means Dick to the owner unless coin is involved.

        And he takes himself seriously which is really sad.

        • Arius Mumin

          I don’t know you-we’re not buddies.

          Which 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 years are those? Could you be a little more specific, please?……or maybe you suffer from numerical tourette.

          So you believe the Oilers(MacT and Lowe{of course}) can trade Gagner for another player: that could be of better use, but don’t because they overvalue Gagner, and are making the rest of the team and fanbase suffer because of the mancrush? If not, what is your point?

          Ok, I counted. What about them?

          Do you know exactly-what Bucky and OwnGoal job is? Do you know what their duties and input is? That is what needs to be said, as far as I’m concerned, if you are bringing them up. Tell me exactly what it is you don’t like about their doing?

          There is more then two types of fans. I, as some, don’t like the others, but there is no need to get into that.

          I believe you are scapegoating Kevin Lowe as a loser here, his resume says otherwise. The team shouldn’t mean that much to people, it is just a sports team. There is no way that the team should mean more to the fans than it does to Katz and Lowe. If your feelings keep getting hurt-don’t care or find another team to cheer for. No need to lose sleep over it.

          Don’t be sad about Kevin Lowe, I’m sure he don’t give #@$% about you.

          • Reg Dunlop

            Hello Arius, This is your doctor. I know it’s been a struggle for you to adjust your new meds. It’s important to remember that being in a coma for 8 years will do that. Since narcism is a byproduct of such cerebral inactivity I recommend you take your Valium and run off to bed and leave this site for some more intelligent posters. PS We will increase your dosage to help with your grandiose personality.

          • Bryzarro World

            Buddy, don’t take Buddy literally.

            The 8 years of missing playoffs. Should be easy enough to figure out. Ask your Buddy.

            The Insiders said MacT wants a top 6forward, top 4 D, or starting Goalie. Overvalue? That explains the untradeable contract.

            Lowe’s resume? He had a good run in 2006, granted. But by his own admission, he is involved in every decision, otherwise, on. Gregor’s show, he would have said MacT makes player/roster decisions.

            Bucky and OwnGoal? Don’t know exactly what their roles are, but based on what I see as a cable subscriber, it’s clearly not working. And how do those Sycophants outlive so many head coach’s? Put forth a theory if you have one.

            Trust me, I lose no sleep.

            Time for bed, Harrison.

          • Arius Mumin

            Buddy, don’t take MacT and Lowe literally. The don’t go on T.V and radio so they tell you exactly what is going on with the team.

            Why weren’t the people complaining in years 5,6,7? Why all the sudden the Lowe push?

            Who are these insiders? People on T.V shows who need advertising money?

            Of course he is involved with every decision, he is the overseer. Just because he oversees Gagner play sh!ty defence, it doesn’t mean he told Gagner to play sh!tty defence.

            What exactly do you see on cable? What so you see that has you so sotrongly convinced? The theory could be simple-some ass.coaches are just head coach’s lackies. The make sure that the players are skating around pylons.

            Never said you lost sleep, dont know who Harrison is.

          • Oilers4Ever

            Lol good call

            #1 – obvious, he led this team into needing to rebuild in the first place
            #2 – hired Tambi who failed in his role
            #3 – hired the scouting staff who has failed in every selection past 1st rnd
            #4 – insulted the fans by grouping them into tiers
            #5 – wrecking the Comrie for Perry trade by insisting Anaheim reimburse’s
            Comries signing bonus
            #6 – trading down to select Pouliot instead of taking Parise
            #7 – 3 playoff appearances in 14 years
            #8 – 8 years straight with no playoffs

            You’re turn, 8 reasons why he should keep his job

          • Arius Mumin

            #1. Lowe leading this team into a rebuild was something that was forced about him, it was not by choice.

            #2. Lowe hired Tambi to have a willing puppet. The team was going into a rebuild, and to be honest Lowe and Co, probably decided to tank on purpose. Remember, it is hard to convince players to come here via trade and/or free agency.

            #3. Please, list the selections you are refering to, I am not aware of what you were expecting or promised.

            #4. All fanbases have tiers, if someone just came to that realization and got insulted-I’m sorry to hear that.

            #5. Lowe has the Oilers best interest at heart, it is easy to judge in hindsight. Remember, the Oilers were going under at that time and that money could have been a need more so than the player returning.

            #6. Once again, hindsight. If you are blaming, the scouting staff for the past 1st rnd, then: you can’t blame Lowe for Pouliot, he wasn’t on the scouting staff, right?

            #7. What is your point?

            #8. *refer to #7

          • Mason Storm

            If Lowe had the Oilers best interests at heart. He would step aside and let someone else run this team. The on ice product proves that this team is going nowhere. They are around .500 against non-playoff teams and likely around .125 against playoff teams. He’s changed Gms, coaches, players, trainers and even brought in a dance crew too distract the fans, and they suck too. What other proof do you need that Lowe has to go.

          • Rob...

            “#5. Lowe has the Oilers best interest at heart, it is easy to judge in hindsight. Remember, the Oilers were going under at that time and that money could have been a need more so than the player returning.”

            I love #5. I’ve considered using it in the past. BTW, god forbid, if you ever need open heart surgery I’d be willing to fix you right up. I’ve no experience as a surgeon, but I will have your best interests at heart (full pun intended). Besides, given the wage I’d get and a boss that will never fire me, what do “I” have to lose?

          • Bryzarro World

            1/2. The Comrie incident and the non trade for Perry.

            3. The Burke incidents
            4. The talking down to the fans.
            5. The Souray incident.
            6. The not making the playoffs for 8 freaking years.
            7. Constantly getting bent over in trades and letting players walk for nothing.
            8. Not stepping back and letting a GM do their job after he turned this team into an abortion on ice as the GM…

            I have at least 2 dozen more. You can stfu and go away now…

          • Arius Mumin

            You are delusional.

            With fans like you, it is no wonder that the Oilers are able to take so much while giving so little. Katz knows this, Lowe knows it, and most of the players know it as well. Drinks up.

          • Bryzarro World

            You ask for reasons and received many. Now you call others delusional. Do you know where you are right now? Lay off the pills….

            I can’t stand Lowe, I gave up season tickets that were in the family for over 20 years a few years back and don’t watch any games. How am I drinking anything you moron? I think you the one pounding back the Black Labels..

            Idiot. …

          • Arius Mumin

            You didn’t gave up season tickets, and you never had season tickets.

            If you don’t watch any games: why the #@% do you care and how the #@$% do you have bases for you genius opinions.?

          • Bryzarro World

            I see you have no friends so I’ll explain it to you…

            I don’t need to prove anything to a little online loser. We had tickets since ’82, how have you supported the team since then you little maggot?

            Facts aren’t opinions, they’re facts and look at the teams record since lowe has been GM. ..

            What do I need to watch that hasn’t happened in the last 8-15 years?

            .

          • Admiral Ackbar

            You’re actually calling a guy out on Oilers Nation? How old are you? How are you better than the guy you’re calling out if you’re talking about fighting him at Northgate?

            It’s a blog. He’s allowed to attack your credibility. He doesn’t even need a good reason. What makes you think you deserve respect here? If a blog can offend you this much, what other ridiculousness are you capable of?

            Quit acting like a child and stick to the subject.

            Remove the entire coaching staff, top to bottom. Don’t just fire Lowe, humiliate him publicly.

          • Bryzarro World

            Who said anything about fighting? I’m getting peppers at T&T.

            Take your pretentious attitude and leave alone. Just because you’re scared of everything doesn’t mean the rest of the world is.

          • Arius Mumin

            Because women are so much more personal than objective, tendencies that logically contradict one another are capable of getting on together within their circle of ideas: for they are accustomed to become enthusiastic for the representatives of these tendencies one after the other and to adopt their systems whiolesale: but they do so in such a way that there is always an unemployed spot where a new personality later gains ascendancy. It does perhaps happen that all the ideas in the head of an elderly woman consists of nothing but such unemployed spots.

          • Arius Mumin

            The superior spirit takes pleasure in the acts of tactleness, arrogance, even hostility perpetrated against him by ambitious youths; they are bad manners of fiery steeds who have as yet carried no rider and yet will long be proud to carry one.

          • Zarny

            It is obvious that you are delusional.If you don’t watch games why do you post? You make no sense Arius. It is obvious from your inflammatory posts that the only reason you post here is to seek attention. Get a life.