Is David Moss worth a phone call?

On Thursday, Fox Sports’ Andy Strickland reported that free agent winger David Moss had a tentative deal in place with a team in Switzerland. The caveat was that he had an out clause if he could land an NHL contract in the next week.

It’s a unique situation, and I can’t help wondering if it’s one that should interest the Oilers.

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There are two big items working against a deal between Moss and the Oilers: his age (he’s 32) and Edmonton’s sudden depth on the wings. We’ll take the second in a moment, but let’s see if his positives offset the first before we get to fit.

Moss is a right-shooting winger who can play on either side of the ice. He’s been a pretty good possession player basically forever. He’s big (6’4”, 210 pounds). He had a lot of success on a defensive minutes line with Boyd Gordon in 2012-13; neither player has been as good separated from the other. He has some legitimate scoring ability, too; he’s been a 30-point guy when healthy for most of his career, though he dipped to 22 points last season. He’s also an exceptional penalty-killer.

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In short, he’s been a pretty good third-line guy for a while and might be able to handle the job again; worst case scenario he might be a very nice fit (again) on the right wing of a defensive zone specialty line centered by Gordon.

Presumably, he’s not looking at a massive deal in Switzerland, so one imagines the dollars would be reasonable on a one-year deal.

The Depth Chart

Joensuu, Jesse

Most of the Oilers’ depth chart (aside from the black hole at centre) is settled, but fourth-line right wing is one of the most interesting positions on the team because the options are many and varied and it isn’t at all clear who will win the slot. Leaving aside badly out-of-position candidates (Matt Hendricks, Anton Lander, Luke Gazdic) the internal possibilities include:

  • Mark Arcobello: I suspect the Oilers add a centre and give Draisaitl a nine-game audition, which would push Arcobello into this slot or one of the spare forward spots. He’s a smart player with faceoff ability so despite a lack of size this isn’t necessarily a terrible slot for him.
  • Jesse Joensuu: 6’4”, 210 pounds and nobody’s going to care if he can’t score if he’s playing on the fourth line. He might end up in the minors but he showed well in camp a year ago and shouldn’t be written off. If Arcobello ends up at centre (or the Oilers want size here) he’s got a legitimate shot.
  • Tyler Pitlick: He was a significant draft pick (No. 31 overall in 2010), he’s no longer shielded from waivers and he looked okay in 10 games last year. He’s a contender for this spot.
  • Steve Pinizzotto: I wonder. He’s a nasty player and a two-way guy in the AHL (including on the penalty kill) with a mix of offensive and defensive ability. Age (he turned 30 in April) and career arc (18 career NHL games) say ‘no’ but this is a player-type the Oilers love and this is probably his last best chance to crack an NHL roster. If it comes down to a choice between the endlessly injured/forever frustrating duo of Joensuu/Pitlick or a driven Pinizzotto than the AHL journeyman just might win the job.

In the Oilers shoes, I wouldn’t be worried about losing any of those right wings (though I also wouldn’t be terribly worried giving one of them an NHL shot in a fourth-line role). The one concern would be if the Oilers add a centre and keep Draisaitl all year; that would likely force the team to expose either Arcobello or Lander to the waiver wire, which while not catastrophic would be suboptimal (though LTIR is always available to help resolve those problems).

By my count, the Oilers 50-man list will be at 46 names once Draisaitl is signed (assuming Nurse is returned to junior and all the RFAs other than Horak and Larsen are retained). Even assuming they add a centre without moving a name out, signing Moss would put them at a tight but not unbearable 48 names entering training camp.

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As I See It

On a cheap one-year deal, Moss wouldn’t be a bad pickup. The Oilers could feel confident moving forward with a fourth line devoted to defensive zone starts. The guys they’d be risking on the waiver wire (one or both of Pitlick/Lander) aren’t players I’d lose sleep over, though in a perfect world they remain in the organization.

It’s probably worth a phone call, even at age 32. If he’s willing to take a one-way/$800,000 contract to stay in the NHL, great; it’s been a long time since the Oilers had too many NHL players. If not, there’s a fun battle for that last fourth line job in training camp.


    • The Last Big Bear

      Actually, yes.

      He played about half a season at centre for the Flames. He’s better as a winger, but he wasn’t half bad at centre.

      He’s a quality player, excellent advanced stats and passes the eyeball test.

      The only question with Moss is his health. The fact that he’s 32 now, and has got a handshake deal in Switzerland suggests there aren’t many NHL teams that can answer that question to their satisfaction.

      I would suggest that the Oilers pass on this guy. Quality player, but the Oilers need to put their cap space towards the gaps on the roster rather than further reinforcing the wings.

    • Zarny

      That’s the problem isn’t it. I like Purcell and Pouliot but serviceable guys are still available at a lot less salary. It’s great to have a third scoring line but you better build a second line in the process. If MacT doesn’t make a deal for a quality C then this could be another tough year.

  • bazmagoo

    His history with Gordon is interesting. But I think the Oilers are content to have Lander and Arcobello battle for starting minutes (or both winning starting minutes at training camp if Draisaitl falters), as well as Joensuu and Gazdic alternating for 4th line minutes depending on the game (need for a goon). Wouldn’t be horrible to have Moss at league minimum or just above for a year though, would certainly add to the battle at training camp. The majority of players don’t return when they go to Europe, I’m sure Moss is well aware of this.

  • bazmagoo

    I’d sign Moss. Great depth/role player. Leave Lander in OKC

    3 scoring lines and a 4th consisting of Hendrix$, Gordon and Moss would be a great shut down line and a bona-fide start to a NHL penalty kill unit.

    It would lighten the load, for Dr Dri.

    A 3rd of Purcell, Acro , Poulet
    2nd Perron, Dry$addle, Yak. Sheltered “Corn boil butter soft line”
    1ST Hall RNH Eberle.

  • Spoils

    This sounds kind of perfect given the chemistry/history etc. for the fourth line:

    Hendricks Gordon Moss

    I like the idea of the team getting harder and harder to crack. Would Lander skate onto the team in LA or Chicago? If someone can bump Moss out, it’s worth taking the flyer.

  • Spoils

    New comment for this – I want to see some blog chatter about the #2C…

    For example let’s talk about Carolina –

    Eric Staal – 61pt;
    Jordan Staal – 40pt;
    Riley Nash – 24 pt (25 – 6’1, 200lbs);
    Elias Lindholm – 21pt;
    Manny Malhotra – 13pt;
    Andrei Loktionov – 10pt;
    Brett Sutter – 2pt

    Riley Nash maybe? – 575k and an RFA next year and Carolina has 63M against their cap now…

    not quite a #2C, former Oiler pick, good two way possession player… too small?

    or could we go after a Jordan Staal?

  • I think it is getting silly hearing this talk about getting another centre, I do believe most people were pissed they arcobello didn’t get a full year and really if he did he would of been rookie of year or at least in the final of that. I don’t think MacT is going to do anything, Arcobello is going to surprise most of us and if we need a big huge centre it will happen in the spring at the trade deadline.

    • IM80

      I wasn’t pissed about Arco not getting a full year.

      Calder trophy discussion for Arcobello? …wow…ummm….on what merit? yes, he had nice advanced stats but let’s not go too far here. 10pts in first 10gms, then 8pts over next 31 games. 82 equiv of 36pts and -14…..

      Arco is what he is…..small centre, decent skills, very smart and understands defensive responsibility.

      trash the post away…but IMO, he will not be on the roster this full season and whether anyone wants to hear this or not…i don’t think he will ever be on the Oilers NHL roster for a full season…..(which is too bad because i do like him, but he doesn’t fit with the roster they are trying to build, and he doesn’t appear to be in MacT’s long term plans)

      • The 36 pts you prorated doesn’t account for the fact that in his last 20 games he wasn’t getting the offensive push he got in his first 20. Offensize Zstarts went down, and qualteam plummeted.

        He’s still a total “?” IMO. Could be a superior 2C to Gagner, and when Draisaitl is ready, ARCO could be a great fit as 3C… Not sure yet, but it’s possible.

      • to be fair to Arco, early in the season he was played at his natural position with good players. He was later moved to the wing and and sometimes with Gazdic on his line. At Center, He is a great option to win the battle against soft competition and his game is sound enough to support a less defensively competent player on his wing.

    • northof51

      I think most people were pissed that, given our black hole of suck at centre, Arco wasn’t given more opportunity. Remember that fun time when Will Acton was dressing on the 4th line while Arco sat in the press box? And then with a “healthy” Gagner spiraling into unparalleled lows, Arco still sat and then got demoted to the Barons.

      Also, what about acquiring a huge centre at the deadline? Waiting for the deadline to make a deal is a high risk, low reward play as buyers seldom win those deals.

    • Zarny

      Oh really?

      I like Mark Arcobello. You have to admire a guy who grinds it out and gets to the NHL the hard way.

      But the reality is he’ll turn 26 in August and has all of 42 of NHL experience. He’s small enough to play a hobbit with no CGI, and while he was playing as one of the Oilers top 2 C last year they were 4-15-2.

      Arcobello is not going to be a #2C in the NHL. He hit his prime last year at 25 and has another 4 years or so and he’ll likely be out of the league again if he can even stick around that long.

      That’s how it goes for players who take 7 years to get to the NHL.

    • pkam

      I was upset Arcobello wasn’t playing regular is because he was better than the alternative.

      He may be an excellent utility player but he’s not going to be a second line center on a good team.
      Though he may start the season as second line center with Edmonton.

  • Zarny

    Moss would make a lot of sense if you were in the 1 million range. He could easily pair with Hendricks to play a tough zone line. He doesn’t play center BUT he has taken his fair share of draws. He runs about 43%, not great but a good secondary option.

    I think the fan base is worried about the center position more than the management team. I think with a guy like Moss & Hendricks on the 4th line they can help anchor the line with a younger center.

    The Oilers would have the option of playing the hot hand with Purcell & Perron. I’d be tempted to pair Gordon with Yakupov (to give him the Horcoff treatment) and then you could have Lander or Arcobello to play with Moss & Hendricks.

    Your bottom nine could look like this.


    Spares; Draistail/Arcobello/Lander (whichever draws out) Pitlick (waiver eligible) and Gazdic when he gets back. Someone would have to be sent out when Gazdic gets back.

  • For some reason it seems pointless to be focussing on the make up of the fourth line when the team was the 28th ranked team in the NHL last year. While they may have some impact on results, agonizing over who plays what spot is comical. The Oilers have much greater issues to deal with, starting with their #2C and the make up of the blue line contingent.

    • This may come as a shock, but t’s actually possible for a team to work on more than one thing at a time.

      Imagine, being able to have a conversation about a possible 4th line player while still being aware that you have bigger holes to fill!

    • pkam

      What are your thoughts on our current Defense squad?

      I think it got better. Get Petry signed and we have our best defense group since 2008, or even 2006 with Pronger *spitz*

      • Quicksilver ballet

        Petry was signed the other day. As for the remainder of the blue line contingent it has improved. My concern is that we still do not appear to have a legitimate first pairing D man.

        Last year we had a group of 5-6 D men being forced to play well above their comfort level. This year we have a group of 3-4 level D men being forced to play to high on the roster.

        Until we have a true first pairing tandem (Nurse Klefbom at some future date?)we are going to struggle to be a playoff team much less a contender.

  • Zarny

    IMO, I believe it may be better to see what Pitlick and Khaira could do this year. I know that both are very young still, and Pitlick has had injury issues but its now the time to do two things here….

    1) let Pitlick, Khaira, Pinizzotto and even Lander… fight it out for a 4th line wing spot. I’ve seen Pitlick, Pinizzotto and Lander play ebough in the NHL to know they could be 4th liners, and… but… when I saw excerpts of Khaira this year at prospects orientation camp… I saw that this kid can play both centre/wing easily and he could learn a lot from Gordon for future centre duty as well.

    IMO, either of Pitlick and Khaira (if they earn it mind you) should slot in that 4th line wing position now. Both can really skate very well, can shoot, have very good size. lander to me is too passive in that he does not hit much and his skating is average , although he can play centre a bit/play PK.

    With Hendricks and Gordon on the line, these kids would do well.

    Gotta show the system that the Oilers do play the kids they draft.

    2) Sign a legit enough two yr bridge playing vet centreman and allow Draisaitl one more year to grow. hey, if the kid can do extremely well in TC and during his 9 game intro, like Hall, RNH, and even Yak…before him…then let him stay. But it may be time to do exactly what the team did with Eberle before he came to the Oil for good.

    • pkam

      What is wrong with signing a veteran 3/4 NHL winger who is off his prime to send a message to the young players that you have to at least beat this player in order to play in NHL?

  • pkam

    If we are truly interested in being competitive this year , Moss could be an upgrade that could help that happen at a reasonable cost . Thus an inquiry would be a good idea . However , we still need a reasonable center and a 1-2 defenseman if we are actually trying to get near a playoff birth . Even with those 3 we should at least be able to climb up to 8-9th in our conference and surpass teams like Calgary , Arizona , Vanc. , Nashville , Winnipeg . The rest we will be competitive with and perhaps latch onto a birth . Having said that , I am not sold the Oilers want to fill those holes this season . If they were I believe they would have made that a priority instead of on the backburner where it is now . I am beginning to wonder if they are planning another year of tanking by using default position filling once again. Hope I am wrong , but that’s what it is starting to feel like .

  • Zarny

    Absolutely Moss is worth a phone call. Watched him in Calgary and he’s a quality player.

    The abyss at C is certainly more pressing but just for sh*ts and giggles maybe the Oilers could go to camp without a mountain of “ifs” required for them to not finish last.

  • pkam

    For anything less than 900K, why not. Worse case scenario, send him to the minors.

    Wings just signed Dan Cleary to one year at 1.5M. Cleary is 35, has 8 pts in 52 games and -11 last year. I’ll definitely take Moss over Cleary at this stage.

    Lightnings just signed Brenden Morrow to one year at 1.55M. Morrow is also 35, has 25 pts in 71 games and +1 last year. I will take Morrow over Moss at the same salary, but I’ll rather have Moss at 900K.

    There is another UFA RW Lee Stempniak still available. Wonder how much is he asking. If he can be signed for the same salary as Moss, I’ll be more interested in Stempniak.

  • Zarny


    Khaira has zero chance of making the NHL this year. Realistically he won’t see NHL ice for another 3-4 years if ever.

    Gotta show the system that the Oilers do play the kids they draft? They’ve done nothing but play kids they’ve drafted over the last 8 years.

    How about gotta show the system that spots aren’t gifted and make them earn it?

    You want a spot on the 4th line then be better than a guy with 441 NHL games experience. Not a bunch of ifs and maybes who have never cracked an NHL roster full-time in their life.

  • Sparky Blue

    Signing Moss. Would give us 2 complete lines. What happened to PeterMueller, if he is still available would he not be able to play centre for one year until Leon is prepped inPrince. Albert. Come on Mac T you just about did good this summer but if we don’t get an NHL centre progress on the wIngs might not end up being realized.

  • Sparky Blue

    Singing Moss gives us lines1 and 4 covered. Is Peter Mueller still available? He was first rounder and a top ten pick .Maybe he could solve 2C until Leon is ready.

  • Zarny

    I don’t see any way they sign him. Stauffer has been asked about Moss at least 3 times that i have heard, and each time he says no chance, and pretty confidently.

  • Spoils

    MacT has done great work, but if we don’t add a center this team is going to have problems. so Carolina seems of little interest to people.

    Columbus just committed to Dubinksy.

    Do they have a C we could go after?

    Ryan Johansen – 63pt
    Brandon Dubinsky – 50pts
    Artem Anisimov – 39pts
    Mark Letestu – 34pts
    RJ Umberger – 34pts
    Boone Jenner – 29pts
    Derek MacKenzie, Sean Collins, Michael Chaput, Ryan Craig, Cody Bass. PLUS Alex Wennberg and Mark Dano on their way.

    Lots of Cs.

    Artem Anisimov 6’4 198, 26 years old. 2 way center. 22 goals. 3.28M for 2 seasons…

  • Zarny


    Anisimov is certainly a player the Oilers should look at. CBJ sees Jenner and Wenneberg as C long term and with Johansen and Dubinsky they will likley be looking to move Anisimov.

    He’s probably a bit over his head as a 2C but at 26 y/o could be the right option to transition to 3C when Draisaitl is ready.

  • Zarny

    I really don’t understand why so many people are so anxious to trade away good assets ( our 2015 1st rounder or some top prospects have been tossed around on these blogs ) to acquire a stopgap 2C for a year or two-seriously ??
    There is so much negativity about keeping another 18 year old kid in Edmonton. First,Draisaitl will be 19 on Oct. 27th; second, if he happens to earn the 2C spot, he will immediately become the largest player in our top 6 and -by the eye at least- he looks strong as a bull; third, who really believes that he will learn more by going back to a very weak PA team than he would by getting into say 20/30/40 NHL games by rotating among 3rd/4th line wingers and practicing every day with NHL players under NHL coaching ?
    For me, the only way going back to junior makes sense would be if PA traded him to one of the elite OHL or WHL teams. Finally,we already have stopgap centers in the lineup without wasting prime assets on a guess as to whether or not Joe Blow would be a fit for the Oilers.
    OK. I’m ready for the bullets. Fire away.

  • pkam

    Role playing . I definitely need to do more than just readjust 3-4th line if I’m going to entertain the fans at least . Gm arm chair quarterbacking : I see our conference and even with a another top center and a 1-2 defenseman playoffs might still be to far away this season. I have plenty of draftees that probably need another season before they will be viable . I can always hoodwink the fans using default positioning as in the past . Do I continue the tank route or actually make a stab this season at climbing up in the conference ? Now as for Yakupov , i’m not sure if he is going to pan out playing the Oiler way , or continue to be obstinate and continue playing his way seeing as his new contract is due at end of season . Another episode like last year and i’m afraid he might pull a Radulov on us . So close yet so far away . Maybe i’ll throw the fans a bone and play Nurse and/or Draisaitl to keep/peak their interests rather than send them back to juniors . Maybe this isn’t the season just yet to be competitive ?

  • pkam

    I’d prefer they try to sign Moss if they actually want to run 3 scoring lines and a hard minutes line. It would give the Oilers a 4th line composed of 3 good defensive veteran forwards and leave no liability on the fourth line. Even if they gave him around 1.5M, which seems to be the going rate for veteran ufas who are still available after July 1st, it would leave the Oilers a comfortable amount of cap space.

    • Spydyr

      If it was me offering the deal I would find out what he is getting in Europe and increase it by 100 grand on a one year deal.

      He gets more money and gets to stay in the NHL.Win,win.

  • pkam

    I would pass on Moss ….

    we are getting too close to the 50 man roster,

    We are geting too close to the cap,

    Our AHL team needs to begin to fill 3/4 line players at under $1.5M a year, this will create more room on the AHL roster to develop more players.

    I am concerned at centre which could have been a strong point consider without trades,

    1C RNH
    2C Horcoff (traded for Larson)
    3C Gagner (trade for a 5th rounder)
    4C Gordon
    5C Lander to fill in where needed

    we gave Horcoff and Gagner away and now we need them

  • Zarny


    I have never seen anyone suggest the Oilers trade the 2015 1st or top prospects for a 1-2 year stop-gap.

    If the Oilers moved a pick of that value or a top prospect it would be for a player like Ryan O’Reilly or Sean Couturier or a player who would fill the 2C or top pairing D roll for 5-10 years.

    As for negativity about keeping another 18 y/o have you actually watched what happened with Gagner, Yakupov etc?

    Draisaitl is a very good prospect but he’s not Taylor Hall. No one this year was considered to be an uber-elite prospect. Draisaitl has played hockey in NA all of 2 years.

    If Draisaitl shows up in the fall and looks like he can be a legit top 6 F like Mackinnon last year then sure keep him.

    If he’s not good enough to fill that roll though, and given his skating is not the best that is highly likely then he should go back to Jr.

    If the Oilers want Draisaitl to be a 2C but he’s only good enough to be a sheltered 3C with the Oilers next year then yes, he will learn more playing in PA where he will get ice-time out the wazoo, play in all situations including top PP minutes.

    And no, the Oilers do not have stop-gap C who can play 2C. No one currently on the roster is good enough including Arcobello.

  • pkam

    I like this idea if he comes in cheap. That Gordon line is already going to be eating all the tough minutes, so why not give him a little bit of help?

    As for the centre situation, I think Mac T gambles. Sure this year probably won’t be Draisaitl’s best. But if he gets anywhere near the 40 point mark and can learn some face offs, then that’s a pretty decent first year on a soft minutes line.

    Now, as an Oiler fan I am tired of saying next year, next year, next year. But look what’s about to happen. This year Draisiatl will be doing trial by fire. Both Nurse and Klefbomb will be marinating. And both Yakimov and Jujhar will be battling to show the Oilers they deserve a spot.

    So in one year’s time the Oilers will look like this:

    Hall – Nuge – Ebs (all 5 and 6 year players)

    Perron – Draisaitl – Purcell (great mix of size, skill, and agitation)

    Pouliot – Yakimov or Jujhar – Yakupov (that is a crazy 3rd line and hopefully Yak’s game is ironed out by then)

    Hendricks – Gordon – ? (really this could be so many people)


    Marincin – Fayne

    Klefbom – Schultz

    Nurse – Ferrence

    Yep, that is going to be a hell of a team by then.

  • Quicksilver ballet

    I like David Moss. I’d certainly put him in the lineup every night ahead of Gazdic or Joenssu. They should just buy Jesse out. At 26 he’d be a cheap buyout.

    So, here we are, heading into next season without a top pairing blueliner or a second line center. Should we expect to be a much improved team come October? Almost time for the offseason report card. Looks like a C+ so far.

    • pkam

      If he does not make the team, he goes on waivers and to OKC. No point in a buyout.

      Also aren’t compliance buyouts are long past.

      I hope we see a healthy Joensuu. If he can actually bring it on the fourth line, size is invaluable.

  • #ThereGoesTheOilers

    @ Pkam and @Zarny

    In my postabout Pitlick and Khaira… I did state “if they earn it”.

    What i was trying to state about was that kids making the NHL for 3rd or 4th line status should be moved up instead of always the Oilers having to seek older past their stage type vets.

    Whats wrong with Khaira on the fourth line… for example… if the kid can dominate in a ten minute per game type scenario, does skate very well on the fourth line with TWO VETS (Gordon/Hendricks), and he surpasses those others listed like of Lander, Pinizzotto, Gazdic….

    Having Gordon and Hendricks on your line for ten to twleve minutes a game does not only shelter the kid but those two vets can defin itely show him how to play wing/centre even better.

    If Khaira “earns” his spot as well, he can spell of an extra faceoff or two for those above him once in awhile. If he does earn his spot then this is a huge win win scenario for Edmonton versus against the big sized bullies of LA, Anaheim, San Jose, Phoenix, Vancouver, etc.

    This kid is excellent heavy shoulder size, has a very good heavy shot and passing skills, he loves to hit, can skate faster than those originally thought…and also, he plays both centre and wing to boot.

    He has to make the team in TC and the 9 game trial so whats there to lose off the start…

    The best part of this on top of the rest I just mentioned… is that he is on ELC contract status and therefore…. the extra cap-space STILL available now… can let the Oilers get that better higher paid 2nd line centre or #2 type defenceman the Oilers really need eithe rtradew-wise or UFA (whats left anayways)

    • Quicksilver ballet

      The kid has a year in the BCHL a year in College, and a year in the Dub with a cup of coffee in the AHL, and your plan is start him on the line that eats nothing but the most difficult minutes against the most difficult competition in the league?

      So happy you’re not running this team.

    • pkam

      Singing older past their stage type vets does not stop the kids making the NHL. If the contract does not contain a NMC, then we can send the vets to the minors if they are beaten by the kids.

      Moss is on the edge of not making the NHL, if these kids are unable to be better than him, are they NHL ready?

    • Zarny

      Yes you did state “if they earn it” and there is nothing wrong with kids making the NHL for 3rd or 4th line status if they do earn it.

      The reality is no kid has done so in recent memory and the more common scenario in Edm is gifting a spot to a young player because there are no capable vets they have to beat out. That has to stop.

      Khaira is not going to make the NHL this year. He wasn’t even a pt/gm player in the WHL 2 years after being drafted. Yes he has size, strength, a good shot etc but he’s simply not good enough to play in the NHL. When he’s 23-25 hopefully he will be but he’s simply not the type of prospect who is going to play in the NHL at 19-20 y/o.

      Oiler fans were spoiled with HoF players like Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Kurri etc who were all-stars at 21. That isn’t the norm, even today.

      It’s absolutely comical to read comments that suggest players like Gagner, Eberle, Schultz etc have topped out and won’t improve. Not a single one of them has played a game in their prime. 22 isn’t when an NHL player peaks; 25-30 is.

      IF Khaira makes it you can expect his trajectory to be more like Bryan Bickell who was drafted 41st overall in 2004. Bickell spent an additional 2 years in Jr and was a minor leaguer for another 4-5 years. He’s been a good player from 25-28 and probably has another few years before he drops off again to being a fringe player.