Thursday Trade Talk

Eh? Ehhhh? He doesn’t look half bad. ? from Scott Lewis. #Subban #Oilers #NHL

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Every Thursday we will discuss different trade scenarios. Today’s topic is P.K Subban.

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Why would the Canadiens even considering trading him? Could he make his way to Edmonton?

There is no debate he is one of the top-ten right-shooting D-men in the NHL, along with Drew Doughty, Erik Karlsson, Shea Weber, Brent Burns, Alex Pietrangelo and Dustin Byfuglien. Throw in lefties Duncan Keith, Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Ryan Suter, Roman Josi, Viktor Hedman, Mark Giordano and TJ Brodie and his place among the top-15 NHL blueliners is valid.

People will debate where he ranks among the top-15 defenders, but he’s unquestionably among the league’s elite defenders.

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Since entering the NHL in 2010/2011, Subban has scored the 5th most points among blueliners. His 276 points trail only Weber (277), Keith Yandle (284), Byfuglien (288) and Karlsson (359). Throw in the fact those were his first NHL seasons, and it is hard not to be impressed with his accomplishments thus far.

I had TSN 690 host Tony Marinaro on my show yesterday, and when I asked if it was realistic to believe Subban could be moved, Marinaro responded without hesitation, “Yes.”

Why would the Habs consider this, I asked Marinaro?

“There is no doubt he is the Canadiens best defender, and he’s among the top-ten in the NHL. Guys like that you don’t usually want to trade. There are some holes on the Canadiens, mainly on offence. They desperately need a centre and a right winger. If they don’t win any of the lotteries, they won’t be able to add a player who can step in right away. They would like to get multiple players, ideally a centre and a D-man.

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“There are a couple more reasons they are contemplating moving him. His no-movement clause kicks in July 1st, and after that he has to okay any trade for the next six years. And as much as the Canadiens love things about Subban’s game, there are a few things that make them rather uneasy.

“One is when they feel he isn’t playing the team game. I know every player in the NHL makes mistakes, but there are cases where he is the last man back and he spins and beats somebody, and instead of advancing the puck, he tries to make another move. At times he picks up the puck and the forwards are waiting with their sticks on the ice, waiting for the pass, wanting a pass, and there is a lot of dipsy doodling and turning back from Subban.That aggravates some of the players on his team.

“There is something else, which has never been admitted by anyone in the organization on record. PK has done an unbelievable job of branding himself. His PK76 brand, he has done an amazing job with it. In my opinion he has made himself the most marketable player in the NHL, without being the best player in the league. He’s got a bunch of sponsors throwing a lot of endorsement money his way. And that is great for PK Subban, he is probably smarter than most players in the league when it comes to business.

“But from what I hear, the Canadiens aren’t crazy about the fact the PK76 logo is front and centre. They would like the Canadiens logo to be front and centre more often than not. So, there are a few things, when you add them all up, I believe it is a real possibility he will be traded. He definitely isn’t an untouchable. Who can we say is an untouchable in the National Hockey League? Connor McDavid, who else?”

HMMM…

HomerThink

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Subban’s game isn’t perfect, but few are. He still takes more risks than many NHL coaches would like, but I believe you can work with him to improve. He is only entering his seventh season. We’ve seen many defencemen evolve and excel in their mid to late 20s. He is entering the prime of his career, and with experience he will realize making the safe play more often than not is okay. You still want him to try and make plays, because he has the ability to, but knowing when and where is imperative.

I don’t doubt the Habs are a bit peeved with his marketing brand. I’m sure they would prefer during the season that he is a Canadien, and in the off-season he can push his own brand. A simple conversation could solve that.

However, Subban is extremely generous with his time and money. He truly cares about kids, and his $10 million donation to Montreal’s Children’s Hospital was incredible. You want players on your NHL team who are invested in the community. I believe too many players don’t do enough, and I applaud Subban for doing what he does. I’d rather ask a player to pull back on his branding and appearances than have to beg him to get involved.

I’d be very leery of moving Subban, because there simply aren’t many D-men who can match his ability. The one concern could be his contract.

Subban’s cap hit is the highest among defenders. He is a $9 million cap hit for the next six seasons.

Weber is $7.86 million.
Byfuglien is $7.6 million
Suter is $7.58 million
Letang $7.2 million
Doughty is $7 million
Karlsson and Pietrangelo are $6.5 million.

You would have to offer Montreal an attractive package to acquire Subban, but you could add in a player who is one or two million outside his price point while doing so. In four years Subban’s contract could look very good, when Doughty, Karlsson and others get a raise, but until then it is safe to say he is a bit overpriced.

TRADE OPTIONS?

Options

If the Oilers won the lottery would they trade the #1 pick and Andrej Sekera (I don’t see him arguing going to Montreal, a great city, and he has Price and Matthews) for Subban? The Oilers would have to shed some salary and Sekera is a proven top-four D-man.

Would the Habs make that deal? Would you? I can see pros and cons for both sides. At the end of the season, Canadiens GM Marc Bergevin said he wasn’t trading Subban. But that was before the draft lottery.

No team could offer him the #1 pick in a package, but this Saturday that will change. We will know who has the #1 overall pick, and if the Oilers crush the hearts of every other fan base — again — and win the lottery, maybe Bergevin and Chiarelli have a conversation.

I believe the chances are slim the Habs trade Subban. He’s extremely popular in the community and he’s an elite defender. However, I’ve never seen a star player get ripped as hard as Subban has been by his own head coach. Maybe it is just tough love from Michel Therrien, which is fine in my eyes, but maybe the coach is truly unhappy with his star blueliner.

If he is, then maybe the door for a trade is open. All I know for sure, is if Subban’s name comes up in conversation with the Oilers, the trade offer would have to include the #1 overall pick and more.

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  • HardBoiledOil 1.0

    at $9 mil/per, this is the reason why the Oilers need to send Nuge *and* Klefbom back if that’s what the Habs want, to fill needs yes, but also for the Oilers to be able to balance the books. i’d be OK with a trade like this because we are exchanging Subban for Klefbom and that’s an instant upgrade and also getting a true #1 RD and we would be trading from a position of strength which is an extra good center.

  • MacT's Neglected Helmet

    PK’s not going anywhere. Teams make dumb moves. Hell, Montreal traded Ryan McDonagh for a past-his-prime Scott Gomez!! But they’re not this dumb.

  • Oiler Al

    Suban would be a nice add, but I think his contract is too rich and too long a term at that cap hit.

    Here is what I would do:

    Hamonic, from NYI., would have to give up one of the premium LHD Sekera,Davidson, Klefbom.

    Shattenkirk, from ST.Louis.. in exchange for Eberle.

    You would have your 2 RHD .

  • Admiralmark

    Personally I would rather Demers+Vatanen or Hamonic+Vatanen over PK Subban. You can build a Cup Contender with 4 top 4 D men. And I think its more of a cap friendly route to go.

    Now having said that would I take Subban if the deal was right? Of course. But some of the trade ideas for PK are through the roof.

  • 15w40

    Based on history, is PK Subban the type of player that you would have out in the last minute of a game to preserve a lead.

    Can he shut down the other team’s best players?

    When the big brains are making rosters for the World Cup and the Olympics why does he have trouble cracking the top 8 players? And this is the top 8 Canadian players not necessarily the top 8 defensemen in the NHL.

    I’m not saying that PK Subban wouldn’t be the Oilers’ best Dman by a mile and he would solve a lot of issues on the power play and just plain exiting the defensive zone. When you are paying one player almost 13% of the entire cap space, he shouldn’t come with questions.

    Just for the sake of argument would the Oilers be better off trading RNH and Klefbom for Subban OR trading RNH or Klefbom & YAK for Hamonic (to clarify just RNH by himself or Klefbom & YAK in a package)

    I think scenario 2 improves the defense immensely but maintains some flexibility going forward in salary structure.

    Hamonic isn’t on the marquee with Subban but is a great defensemen – although after these playoffs Garth Snow make lock Hamonic in the Brooklyn arena and refuse to even let him go home nevermind trade him off the team.

  • CMG30

    Is Subban available for the right price? Is Montreal that dumb? Yes and yes. If you don’t believe me look back at how they’ve handled him so far: Giving him a show-me contract when he had clearly proven what kind of player he was. Then they had to sign him to a whopper to keep him in the fold. Next they kept a coach who takes runs at their star player and they have a GM who fans the trade flames every week or so.

    So yes, it’s not silly at all to speculate about Subban leaving Montreal. But, the devil is in the details. What would it take? For a player of Subbans caliber clearly everyone and everything not named MacDavid could be in the conversation and rightly so.

    The big wrinkle is going to be that contract and how much it impacts his value.

    No guarantees, but if Subban is moved it’s going to be the trade of the summer. April 30th can’t come soon enough!

  • Stack Pad Save

    I don’t think the asking price for Subban will be worth the value of his contract or his skill. Don’t get me wrong. I would love Subban on the Oilers, however giving up a centre for him leaves another gaping hole. I don’t think the Oilers can afford to trade one of their Centers off the current roster. The Oilers played their worst hockey based off of wins and losses when RNH was out of the line-up.

    I would like to see a cheaper solution

    I really like Vatanen off of Anaheim, he looked like there best d-man in the playoffs and is supposed available and he is at the perfect age to fit in with the current Oilers. With Harmonic available as well maybe the Oilers can get both of those players without creating any gaping holes.

    I cant wait to see what happens saturday to see how much value our first over-all pick has.

    God, I can’t wait to be excited for play-off hockey instead of getting excited for what value our draft pick has and can it be used to get get a top defender discussions.

  • oilersOne

    Would this trade make sense?

    MTL: Subban, Eller, MTL – 1st
    EDM: RNH, Klefbom, Yak and EDM – 1st

    Would this work? Is it too much/ too little. I have a sense EDM players have little value so may have to overpay?

  • Bucknuck

    I think the Oilers have what the Canadiens need and vice versa. Crazier things have happened. I would be thrilled to see an Offensive weapon like Subban on the blue. Thrilled.

  • madjam

    I have several trades to consider and expect a defence roster to look like this going into next season : McDonaugh , Hamonic, Vatanen , Gudbranson with Klefbom and Sekara . Bottom 7-8 probably Davidson and Gryba . Now to grade the trade offers :

    McDonaugh and RWing K.Hayes : Oilers give up first round pick ,Nurse and Yakupov .

    Hamonic : Eberle and Osterle or Broissoit .

    Vatanen :Pouliot ,Gazdik and Letestu or Lander .

    Gudbranson : Reinhart and Fayne .

    I think all 4 are doable and gives us a very good young effective defensive unit to move forward with , that also looks to become even better over next couple of years . We need a defensive bundle to change teams direction in a hurry .

  • Speed Junky

    Eberle is out. or he would have been gone already. right

    Leon is gone if we get Austin.

    Nuge is hurting. and 6 million for 56 pts. he also would have been gone by now

    fact is, Leon is Most Valuable trade

    hope we get Patrik or Jesse. keep or 1st round players and

    July 1 get 1 good D

  • #97Train/McDavidCopperfield

    I like Shattenkirk but have people ever jumped on the bandwagon after a few very good St Louis playoff games.
    He didn’t seem that attractive 1 month ago on this site?

  • RJ

    If Sekera is a major piece, it’s still a 3/4 LHD for a 1RHD, so more has to go out.

    Nuge? Eberle? Hall? Matthews/Laine/Puljujarvi?

    Probably Nuge, and trade Eberle for Hamonic.

    Klefbom/PK
    Davidson/Hamonic
    Nurse/Gryba

    Pardy

    No?

  • madjam

    Should we be trading Reinhart and Nurse for immediate defensive help upgrading , rather than waiting for them to become established Nhl’ers ? They currently are suspects or prospects as they are now .

  • This.Is.NHL

    In the 2014-2015 season I said if our top players like Ebs Hall and Nuge don’t play more like Yak does then this team with never be a playoff team, then the 2015-2016 season rolls around and things look the same as pervious years and guess what oilers are in 30th place who woulda thought, One thing I didn’t say and should have was Yak needs to play more like Nuge.

    Now this year I’ll say it once more The Core needs to play as more like yak, McDavid, and Hendrix do and Yak needs to play more like Nuge then this is a playoff team.

    Also, not so much this year but what’s wrong with this organizations development of defensemen being so bad, like real bad, a player like Nurse should be a beast and from what I’ve seen he’s being held back big time and being over coached and losing what made him a top defender in the first place.

  • O.C.

    The What Ifs will start to get real after 530 MST Saturday.

    A lot of movement will happen when every Canadian team is golfing.

    The possibilities are kind of mind blowing. Depending how the lottery goes, we could see as many as two of the core go, plus plus plus.

  • madjam

    Will we be dealing our NBR.1 pick ? Might Chia have decided we need to become a more established veteran club around McDavid , rather than one continually in the questionable developmental stages .

  • MorningOwl

    I love how so many throw Yak in like he is an actual trade piece and not a reclamation project with a negative value. Yak+Ebs for PK??? hahaha right! maybe throw in Nurse, drai and your 1st rd pick too and at least there is a point to start discussions,

  • positivebrontefan

    Whatever happens we need to find a way to get that scrappy little bastard Shaw!
    I love that kid, besides no one wants to play against him.

    PK’s price at 9 mil a year seems high, but Gregor is right, the rest of the NHL top pairing defense are going to catch up shortly.
    He’ll only be an overpay for another year or two.
    It’s incredibly rare that guys like this break loose from their teams for good reason, they can make you a much better team.
    Look at Chicago, with out Keiths 30 minutes a game where would they be?

  • smith

    Yakupov seems like such a nice kid. I really liked how he played and really wanted to cheer for him. I enjoy the edge, spark, fun that he seems to have. I like him more than any other Oiler player (definitely not the best). But, at this point, as a flames fan, I would not trade Colborne for him. Sad.

    I am not sure what wrecked him. Was it the lack of veteran support? The other organizational issues? Or would it have happened wherever he went? Maybe he is just not made for the NHL.