KEEPERS!

For the first time in memory, the Oilers "goalie of the future" is the incumbent NHL #1, Devan Dubnyk. In this look at the organization’s goalies, the major question is this: do the Oilers have another NHL goalie in their system?

DEVAN DUBNYK

The Oilers took Dubnyk’s development slowly, and that is the likely template for the kids in the system. Dubnyk’s timeline looks like a Greyhound ‘milk run’ route, as he stopped in every possible place before Edmonton. It did two things: gave Dubnyk time to find his way as a goalie and find better consistency (still an issue), and it gave the organization a chance to decide between DD and Jeff Deslauriers.

Projecting goalies is a loser’s bet. Anyone who tells you they knew Tim Thomas would turn into Tim Thomas is a liar. NHL teams rarely draft goalies as high as Dubnyk went (#14 overall in the "Rob Schremp" draft) because of it. Dubnyk’s progression–and especially his even strength SP totals at the NHL level–suggests he may do the unlikely and cover the draft bet.

NIKOLAI KHABIBULIN

His time in Edmonton has been less than ideal, but the career has been a good one. Unlikely HOF level, but beginning with the Jets and then going to Phoenix, winning a Stanley in TBAY and then Chicago, Khabibulin’s 783 NHL games ranks him 16th all-time. 2012-13 is likely to be his last in the NHL, but then again we’re talking about goaltenders. Oiler fans will remember him fondly for his performance in the SCF against Calgary, but his Edmonton years have been a struggle.

YANN DANIS

Voted AHL ‘Goalie of the Year’ by that league’s coaches and General Managers, Danis re-signed with the Oilers to play in OKC but could end up spending time in Edmonton. The Oilers needed a strong 3rd on the depth chart, and based on his performance with the Barons last season Danis would appear to be a solid option.

OLIVIER ROY

Young man enjoyed a strong pro debut season with Stockton (ECHL). One might conclude he is not a top level prospect based on spending time in a second tier pro league as a rookie, but we have to remember that Dubnyk was brought along the same way. Roy was one of the best goalies in that league in 11-12, and he was outstanding in a cup of coffee with the Barons in the AHL. Oiler fans will remember that Roy’s acquisition came via a draft day trade with the Minnesota Wild that brought in the picks that turned into Roy and Kyle Bigos. Roy has to be considered a legit NHL prospect at this time, although the Goalie Guild has stated (before he turned pro) in the past "he plays a very constricted butterfly style and he has plenty of refining and improving to do to his game."

TYLER BUNZ

Bunz is my choice as the best goalie ‘bubbling under’ based on an exceptional season in Medicine Hat. One of the indicators for future success among goalies is SP, and Bunz’ final season in the WHL compares well to other goalies drafted by the Oilers during their final junior seasons in the CHL:

  • Bunz .921 (2nd WHL)
  • Jeff Deslauriers .916
  • Devan Dubnyk .912 (tied for 12th WHL)
  • Oliver Roy .911 (tied for 4th in QMJHL)
  • Bryan Pitton .911 (tied for 9th OHL)

Bunz is 6.01, 203–not Dubnyk large but he covers a lot of net. The smart money has Bunz playing most or all of the 12-13 season in Stockton; Edmonton did that with Dubnyk and with Roy and it would seem to be an organizational discipline. Bunz is an outstanding stickhandler too. The major concern with this player is concussions

SAMU PERHONEN

As much as I love following prospects and their progress, getting information on goalies in Europe is a chore. Perhonen is a big, raw goaltending prospect Edmonton drafted in the 3rd round of the draft. The Oilers love the kid, but even the strongest supporters of Perhonen admit he’s going to be a long term development player. A solid showing in the Finnish junior league this season was overshadowed by an uneven performance at higher levels.

Our friend Kirk Luedeke summed up Perhonen very well before the draft: He’s got the lively size, athleticism and solid butterfly technique to be an NHL stopper in time. He reminds us of Tuukka Rask in terms of his body type and playing style and competes with the same kind of swagger and confidence when on top of his game.

FRANS TUOHIMAA

There are some things to consider in regard to Tuohimaa. Although he was the last goalie drafted on this list, he’s one month younger than Olivier Roy, meaning that Tyler Bunz (6 months) and Samu Perhonen (18 months) are younger than Tuohimaa.

He’s a tall, thin goalie and is inconsistent based on his play in the SM-Liiga (18, .898). He did perform well in the tier 2 Finnish league but would have to be considered a long shot for NHL employment at this time.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

For an organization that is waiting for the maturation process in most areas, it is interesting to see the goaltending position filled by a player who should be entering the heart of his NHL career. Devan Dubnyk offers the Oilers a young, stable option at an important position. The Oilers need to make certain Dubnyk’s backup is capable (Danis I believe addresses it), but there would seem to be very little need to draft or procure a strong goaltending option with a high pick any time soon.

Outside the NHL, the two best prospects are Roy and Bunz–who could be NHL ready in the next couple of seasons. Although goaltending is not an area of strength, the procurement department has done a good job of drafting and the development department delivered a #1 in Devan Dubnyk. If one of Bunz or Roy can emerge in the next three seasons, Edmonton might have enough depth to deal from strength to address weakness.

It’s been awhile since we could say that about any position.

    • DSF

      I don’t think we know if Dubnyk is a starter.

      We do know that Khabibulin isn’t an NHL goaltender any longer.

      Going into a season with those factors in play is very risky.

      Ask Brian Burke.

      • Cheap Shot Charlie

        I want to acknowledge the huge step you took today! You admired that ‘we don’t know’. Usually, you know something none of the rest of us know. ‘We’ (the term) may not be taking direct responsibility but ‘we’ is much closer to ‘me or I’ than we (ON citizens) have ever seen you (DSF) to taking ownership of not knowing something. This is a monumental day!
        Free *HUGS* for DSF!!!

  • Cervantes

    I really wish Tambo wasn’t so prideful, so we could send NK down and bring up Yan. Not out of spite, but because we’re going to need a solid vet backup to perform well for a few years behind Duby, and we need to see if Danis can be that guy for more than 2 games.

    Also, while the big club looks good, the farm team is one groin pull away from “stuck with completely raw kids”, and that should be a concern. The team is pretty stacked with prospects working their way up to the bigs, the last thing they need is a miserable season screwing up their advancement.

    Also, any keepers article reminds me that this is the year Tambo can extend NK. So, nightmares for the rest of the week, thanks for that.

  • Lowetide

    Cervantes: lol. I agree, save for the NK renewal. Oilers will be looking for a #2 who costs much less thank Khabibulin now that Dubnyk is getting #1 dollars.

  • Lowetide

    Dubnyk at evens has had two nice seasons now. His EV SP 10-11 was .921, and in 11-12 .927; which was good enough for a 14th place tie–about mid-pack and solid to impressive based on his experience and the team in front of him.

    Dubnyk has some issues–PP SP, consistency–but I think (as do the Oilers based on the contract) he’s earned the #1 job.

    • DSF

      WC SV% (minimum 10 games)

      5V5

      Elliot .945

      Halak .938

      Smith .936

      Quick .933

      Schneider .931

      Griess .931

      Backstrom .931

      Luongo .929

      Howard .929

      Bachman .929

      Kiprusoff .928

      Rinne .928

      Dubnyk .927

      McDonald .927

      Niemi .926

      Lehtonen .926

      Hackett .925

      J.S Gigeure .924

      Varlamov .923

      Harding .923

      Sanford .923

      Ellis .923

      Not sure how you get middle of the pack out of that.

      Most observers think Columbus has pretty crappy goaltending and Dubnyk’s save percentage was .004 better than Sanford’s.

      Then, when you look at 4V5 SV%, Dubnyk’s was .862 while many of the good goalies in the league actually had a higher save percentage while their team was shorthanded.

      Thomas .978

      Hiller .977

      Ward .972

      Lundqvist .972

      Lehtonen .971

      Schneider .960

      Sanford .955

      Quick .946

      And so on….

      Dubnyk .862

      I don’t think you can just throw out the short handed save percentage to prove a point.

      Obviously there is an issue there.

        • DSF

          So, based on those parameters, 10 teams in the WC have a goaltender with a better save percentage than Dubnyk and the Canucks have 2.

          Sorry, Jon that only leaves 4 other teams so “mid pack” is not accurate.

          • Uh, no. Seven teams in the Western Conference have a better starting goalie by SV%. Seven other teams in the West have an inferior starter by SV%.

            I’m really not sure why you’re stuck on this point , but Dubnyk’s basically been the definition of average over his first two seasons (and that’s not meant in a negative way).

          • DSF

            Really?

            Using the parameters YOU set.

            Schneider

            Rinne

            Quick

            Luongo

            Smith

            Lehtonen

            Niemi

            Halak

            Backstrom

            Hiller

            Varlamov

            Now, you can argue that some of these goaltenders are not starters but you can also make the argument that Dubnyk hasn’t been either and is just moving into that role as Schneider is doing in Vancouver.

            At any rate, there are 10 teams with goaltenders who met the parameters you set with better save percentages.

            If you want to raise the bar to something like 50 GP as a reasonable line for a starter, Dubnyk doesn’t even qualify since he started only 42 games last season and 32 the season prior.

      • Also, you’re using NHL.com wrong. “Shorthanded SV%” bizarrely refers to SV% while the goalies team is on the power play – count up the shots in shorthanded and power play and you’ll see that I’m right.

        So what you’ve listed is actually save percentage while their team is on the power play, where a starter *might* see 40 shots per year.

  • Like it or not, getting rid of Khabby now would pretty much confirm the team was full-on tanking the last couple of seasons. Even though they were, no way will the team openly admit it. There’s alot of pride in that office over on Kingsway. He’s here until he goes down with yet another “lower body injury”. That’ll give them the out they need to pull up Danis or bring in a viable #2 option.

    So, thirty games or so into the season we’ll see some movement. That’ll put us on or near March this year. SIGHHHHHHH.

  • Lowetide

    David S: I don’t think he plays 30 games all season. Dubnyk is going to get the lion’s share of the starts imo and it wouldn’t be impossible to suggest a couple of mid-week ’emergency callups’ for Danis when the Barons aren’t playing.

    • By the numbers, Khabby should go down after playing two-three games. Since Dubnyk will get the first twenty or so starts in a season which may be 60 or so games in length, you’re looking at roughly March. Thus my projected schedule.

      My god that makes me sad. No NHL hockey until November. I can barely make it to season startup as it is.

  • Lexi

    I believe DD has done enough to justify taking a chance on him as a starter for a “do or die” year. Then depending on how he performs there should be a wide variety of goalies available next year. If he flops and we need a starter, a few of Backstrom, Bernier, Howard, Hiller, Theodore, Lehtonen, Smith, or Nabokov should be available. If he’s okay, one of Karlsson, Greiss, Budaj, Mason, Garon, Scrivens, Enroth, Neuvirth, Boucher, Ellis, Allen, Bachman, Pasquele or Labarbara should fit the bill. One guy I am assuming they are keeping an eye on is Eddie Lack, who I assume MacT has an inside scoop on.

    This year also gives them one more year to evaluate Bunz and Roy’s progress and determine whether they NHLers or not. Finding the right quality goalie next offseason is one test this management team should pass or else we are in trouble.

  • Reg Dunlop

    Khabbi, like many european vets angling for a new contract, will have a solid season leading to some poor team(thankfully not the oil) signing him to 2+ years. NHL GMs are a guillable bunch. Unless Dubnyk plays lights-out look for a near 50-50-split with Khabbi having the predictable looking-for-a-new-contract bounce back year.

    As for the future, I think that Patrick Roy still has some tread left, but Bunz has the name that media will ‘eat up’. The Bunz is in the oven, it’ll be ready soon.

  • DSF

    @ Willis and all stats guys;

    As a guy who played goal in a number of sports, no not professional level at all but for a long time, I can say that save percentage, while and important measure of ranking, is still flawed to some degree.

    When I played on good teams my save percentages went up and I always looked a little better.

    Shots at the net where generally more “predicatable” as the team defence in front of me did what I expected and the shots came in from areas of the playing field I expected them to come from. When you are on a team with bad defence shots came in from everywhere as a goalie you can quicky lose your structure and confidence – this causes you to have to guess and be ready for anything if the team defence in front is suspect.

    Hence, in my opinion, save percentage has by used in conjunction with the “seen him good” stat as well. I suspect DD will be just fine with improved team defence.

    • “Marginal improved team defence”, as we haven’t added any significant upgrades and are hoping for Whitney to return to days of yore, which won’t happen.

      Adding a rookie (no matter how great he might be one day), counting on player maturation and pining for a player who never will be at the same level he once was is a sure fire recipe for “24th place”.

      One decent D man. Not a superstar, just a decent defensive zone player. That and an NHL caliber backup for Dubnyk. We could have made some hay with those improvements.

      SIGHHHHHHHH.

    • That’s a comment I’ve seen before, and one that I respect, but I’d suggest that at the NHL level the difference between teams is smaller than at other levels of hockey. For example, in junior there seems to be a significant difference while in the NHL the difference exists but isn’t nearly as big.

  • Spydyr

    Why not give Khabby the options:

    1)Retire
    2)Ride the buses
    3)Hurt your back and hit the long term IR

    Then get a young goalie with upside via a trade, a late cut or from the waiver wire.

    Get someone Dubs own age to push him.

    Why not try to move forward rather then wasting another year on Khabby.

    Perhaps Tambo is just trying to save face on his 4 year contract to Khabby?

  • Cheap Shot Charlie

    I believe EDM has to sign Perhonen and Tuohimaa by June 1, 2013, will be interesting to see if they sign either, both, or neither, with Dubnyk, Bunz and Roy already in the system. Not impossible they could sign both and only bring one to NA, I guess?

    • DSF

      Not sure what you’re having a problem with.

      Here’s the WC starters with Games Started and SV% ranked by SV%

      1) Smith (PHX) 67GS .930

      2) Quick (LAK) 69GS .929

      3) Halak (STL) 46GS .926

      4) Rinne (NSH) 72GS .923

      5) Lehtonen (DAL) 59GS .922

      6) Kiprusoff (CAL) 68GS .921

      7) Howard (DET) 57GS .920

      8) Luongo (VCR) 54GS .919

      9) Backstrom (MIN) 45GS .919

      10) Niemi (SJS) 68GS .915

      11) DUBNYK (EDM) 42GS .914

      12) Varlamov (COL) 52GS .913

      13) Hiller (ANA) 73GS .910

      14) Crawford (CHI) 55GS .903

      15) Mason (CBJ) 45GS .894

      11th of 15 is not “average”

      Interesting that two of the four teams below the Oilers on that list have moved to upgrade their goaltending, Anaheim with Fasth and Columbus with Bobrovsky.

    • RexLibris

      So what you’re saying is that if I can understand them I should see a doctor right away?!

      As for Perhonen or Tuohimaa, call me a disciple of goalie voodoo, but I figure whichever one the Oilers sign will become Steve Passmore 2.0 while the other will disappear into anonymity only to resurface twenty years later to win a Cup with Boston.

      As for Dubnyk, he has been average, on a (well) below-average team. I would hazard to guess that some improvement in the five people on front of him may improve his performance. What I find encouraging about him is that he is more or less consistent. There have been mistakes, but they seem to me to be the ones that young players make, rather than the ones that bad players make.

      Please, Devan, don’t make me look (more) a fool!

  • If Dubnyk plays 60 games, how many games does he win? If Khabibulin plays the rest how many does he win?

    With these numbers Dubnyk would have to win 40+ games and Khabibulin would have to win half of his to make the playoffs.

    Yikes!

  • OilClog

    Dubnyk is 11th when the Oilers were 14th.

    So if the defense was improved would then not a jump in sv% also happen..

    Or maybe if Chicago had Dubnyk..

    Seriously DSF do you spend all your time grasping at straws?

    • DSF

      Do you think the Oilers would be better than 14th if Dubnyk was 1st?

      Chicago gave up 1 fewer goal than the Oilers.

      Difference is they scored 36 more.

      If the Oilers can score the most goals in the WC, Dubnyk won’t make much of a difference.

      Until then….

      Seriously.

      • longbottom/P.Biglow

        Just a quick couple questions DSF?
        You do realise those numbers you speak of are behind defenses much better than the oilers? Correlation? I think so.
        When DD was a back-up check his stats playing 1 out every 4 or 5 games, then check his stats when he played the bulk of the games behind the very same defense? Correlation? I think so.
        A starting goaltender is generally sharper than the back-up in most cases because he forced to stay sharp.

        • DSF

          A sharper goaltender is the starter because he IS sharper.

          Dubnyk started 33 games in 10/11…his SV% was .916.

          He started 42 games in 11/12…his SV% was .914.

          No real difference.

          Playing behind a crappy team defense would be more accurately reflected in GAA.

          Here’s how the WC starters looked:

          Quick 1.95

          Halak 1.97

          Howard 2.13

          Smith 2.21

          Lehtonen 2.33

          Kiprusoff 2.35

          Rinne 2.39

          Luongo 2.41

          Niemi 2.42

          Backstrom 2.43

          Hiller 2.57

          Varlamov 2.59

          DUBNYK 2.67

          Crawford 2.72

          Mason 3.39

          Once again, we see Dubnyk near the bottom of the barrel.

          Interestingly, Khabibulin, who pretty much everyone agrees is done like dinner, actually had a better GAA than Dubnyk (2.65) while playing behind the same crappy defense.

          If Dubnyk is the answer, you have to wonder what the question was.

          I expect he is a better option than Khabibulin going forward but not by much.

          • longbottom/P.Biglow

            Again you stand by the total stat of total games played. Again I tell you seperate the time from back up to time as a starter and you will notice a huge difference in GAA and SV% to bring his totals up to .914.
            The starter generally is sharper is because as anyone who knows or played hockey gets the bulk of the work in pratice and of course in games.
            Now I ask you again and this time take a moment to ponder would D/D have better numbers behind say 10 out of the 15 teams defences. For example lets see is Rinne’s and Howards numbers change this year now that they have lost their all stars in front of them.
            As the one poster posted with and expierenced defence the goaltender can cheat because he knows where most of the shots are going to come from. We will see.

          • DSF

            There is no difference.

            His SV% was higher in 2011/12 and his GAA was virtually the same:

            10/11 2.72

            11/12 2.67

            Based on what we can see, he’s a below average goaltender on a bad defensive team.

            Expecting different results just because he starts more games in 12/13 is just silly.

            There’s a very good chance that the added responsibility and the higher expectations based on his contract will have the opposite effect.

            He no longer has a safety net.

          • longbottom/P.Biglow

            All you are doing is splitting 2 seasons work. try being a stats junkie and look at his numbers as a back-up and as a starter, as a back up how many games in a row did he play?
            how many back to back games did he play?
            If you are going to just be lazy and spout off about his seasons totals then try digging a little bit further and you will see you are burying yourself with every comeback you have.

          • Cheap Shot Charlie

            I really thought ‘we’ (you) had made a giant step today but I check back in and we’re (all us who ever use ON) are in the same place. If your winter driving is anything like your posting I think I’ll be pushing you out o a snow bank but it’s a lot of tire spinning!

            Here’s a *HUG* as consolation that it might never get any better. (You or the Oilers) But it can be fun to watch! 🙂

  • DSF

    I really don’t understand the extremely low level of faith the nation has for NK. For a moment put aside his age. It really doesn’t matter that he’s old as he will be a #2 for the rest of his time here. Put aside the contract which also really isn’t hurting us long term, and put aside the legal issues which have no bearing on hockey games.

    It was just last season when NK put together the hottest stretch of goaltending by an Oiler goalie since Roli 06. Yep by far. Go back and watch the games from the start of last year. He was white hot.

    Sure the wheels came off, but to say there is no chance he can thrive as a #2 this year, as much of the nation is doing, seems sill given what he showed albeit briefly last year. I’m not a Tambo lover but I do think we are good to go in net this year as is.

    And let’s not forget he will be helping along one of our gifted rookies in more ways than stopping pucks.

    GOILERS!

  • Lowetide

    hags: He was horrible after the end of November. If he’d been close to average SP we would be talking about the Oilers season in more glowing terms.

    Khabibulin helped with the ‘fail for Nail’ but in every area–W/L, EV SP, GAA after Nov 1–he was not close to good enough.

    I think the Oilers know he’s probably done and will conduct themselves accordingly.

    • Yes he was poor…
      But he was also unconscious at the start of the year and played at a level not seen since Roli and Dubnyk’s best stretches were not of the calibre NK showed those first 12 games.
      We can say he’s done as a #1, and yes obviously the Oilers are moving along with DD as the #1. But why does that also mean he can’t be an effective #2?

      • Khabibulin had a .937 sv% over his first 12 games. Both Roli and Dubnyk have put up similar numbers over a similar number of games.

        Khabibulin’s sv% was at .964 over his first 9 games and steadily fell from there all season.

        So yeah, he gets full marks for putting up that kind of run, but ultimately that’s not the kind of goaltender he is, so it’s a moot point.

  • Mumbai Max

    Very frustrated that listening to Oilers Nation is no longer a Sunday activity. Certainly not in Bombay. I guess it must be more difficult to post than one imagines. Sigh. Longer sigh.

  • DSF

    It’s tough to win without solid goaltending. The jury is still very much out on Dubnyk but I am a fan of Bunz. He seems like a very mature prospect and it’s been forever since the Oilers have had a goaltender that can handle the puck.

  • RexLibris

    My hope is that Tambellini would prefer to be rid of Khabibulin at full price this year than to drag out the cost, though perhaps reduced, over several more in a buyout.

    It has basically forced Dubnyk to work without the proverbial net (as in trapeze, not goal), but the pain will likely end this year, with luck on the trade deadline day. If I recall correctly, Garth Snow seems to have a fetish for aging goalies. If Tambellini can work the deal out on a poor telephone line maybe he could convince the Isles to send over Mr. Reinhart in compensation.

    Hey, it’s (still barely) summer and I can dream, right?!

  • DSF,

    You actually proved our point.

    First, you mention that Chicago let in 1 fewer goal than the Oilers. That’s great news because their defence is much better then what the Oilers put out last year. Meaning the difference was actually goaltending. So there is a check mark for Dubnyk.

    Second, you said GAA is more accurate for team defense. If the Oilers GAA is in between 2.65-2.67(which is a marginal difference), than we would have the third worst team defence in the WC BY YOUR PARAMETERS. Yet Dubnyk is posting the 11th best save%. Meaning he is actually making the oilers better.

    Just thought you would like to see that =).

    I do agree with you that Khabi should have been replaced by someone who is a more likely bet going into the season. Denis is alright but i don’t know how he would hold up if forced into a starting role.

    • DSF

      Chicago and Columbus goaltending was atrocious last season based on any parameter.

      Oiler goaltending was better…but not by much.

      Arguing whether Dubnyk is less mediocre than those goaltenders is pretty much meaningless.

      He’s a below average goaltender on a crappy defensive team.

      Anointing him the starter and paying him for it is just more of the same old, same old.

      On many good teams, he’d be in the AHL.

      • longbottom/P.Biglow

        Wow now i know you are just a troll here that is not facing reality. The Point was If Dubnyk’s stats on a 30-28 place defence were 11th in the league or hell even in the western confernce means he isn’t below average, it would point to him being above average on a below average defence. A good defense will make a goalie look great. A below average defense will make any goalie look bad.
        Your so fond of Vancouver let’s use Luongo for an example.
        rookie season with the Islanders-GAA 3.25 & a 904 sv% wow he sucked there by your own parameters.
        5 seasons in Florida his best season was 2.43 GAA and a 931 SV% marginal better numbers because the the defense was marginally better.
        His Vancouvers numbers make him look like he is one of the best in the league on a team with argueable the best defense overall in the league. chew on that for awhile.

        • DSF

          Interesting you would pull Luongo out of your quiver as a comparable for Dubnyk.

          Luongo hit the NHL at the age of 20…Dubnyk is now 26.

          More appropriate to use Cory Schneider since he is the same age and had a somewhat similar development path.

          Dubnyk – 1st round pick (14th overall) 2004 entry draft.

          06/07 ECHL .921

          07/08 AHL .904

          08/09 AHL .910

          09/10 AHL .915 NHL .889

          10/11 NHL .916

          11/12 NHL .914

          Schneider – 1st round pick (26th overall) 2004 entry draft

          06/07 Boston College

          07/08 AHL .916

          08/09 AHL .930 NHL .877

          09/10 AHL .919 NHL .915

          10/11 NHL .929

          11/12 NHL .937

          Take a close look at what happens in 08/09 and after.

          One of these players appears to be an above average goaltender…the other….not so much.

          • billylikestodrinksoda

            But one was playing on the worst team in the league and the other was on one of the best?

            And yes, his AHL numbers are much better than Dubnyks, but the Oilers also had very poor farm teams, while the Moose were one of the top teams in the AHL.

            You make compelling cases most of the time DSF, but you choose to ignore key points sometimes and I dont understand why?

            Theres presenting a logical reasonable argument based on the facts you have given, and then there’s being able to see the otherside of the story as well, and understanding why people think that way.

            You choose to believe you know it all, which in my estimation doesn’t show intelligence at all. It just shows ignorance and a inability to progress yourself on the mental level.

  • The Soup Fascist

    Took a quick look at the tenders who played the most games for their respective teams last year.

    Out of 30 teams’ starters:

    12 were drafted by their current team

    4 were signed as free agents into the league

    14 were drafted by other teams and traded or allowed to sign elsewhere.

    So what I am saying in a roundabout way is you are less likely to draft your goalie than trading for him or signing him out of Europe. If you need a starter down the road, history shows you can find him.

    Whew! That is much of an “in depth” stats look as I can muster.

    PS – Raymond, REALLY?

    • DSF

      It’s a very good point.

      Spending years developing a draft choice into a starting goaltender is often a waste of time and resources.

      There are exceptions (Quick, Schneider) but, generally speaking, if your draft pick isn’t getting the job done, there are easily accessible options.

  • WinterNightSky

    To clear up the discrepancy between JW and DSF: JW is using the last 2 years, with a minimum of 50 games played over the two. DSF is using just last year. So we see an uncommon consistency in DD’s SV%, which is nice. Unfortunately, we might’ve hoped for some progress.

    I’m comfortable considering DD the keeper of the future. But the present is 29th place, and the improvement had better come from behind the bench.

    • longbottom/P.Biglow

      I do agree with you. Will Kreuger be the missing motivator that can improve this team?
      Since he has a background in this field I feel there can be a little room for hope.

      • It won’t be Krueger as much as the marching orders he gets from management. Alot of what Renney did (or didn’t do) last year was consistent with a team gunning for a high pick. I won’t go into specifics here because the list is long and obvious to anybody who watched the entire season.

        Renney took the pipe in order to show fans and the league the team wasn’t tanking – which they almost certainly were. I’d bet alot of cash he would have played things WAY different if his real mandate was to win. Krueger will probably get that chance, so he’ll come off looking far better.

        If Renney was a crappy coach he wouldn’t have been picked up almost immediately like he was. The other teams knew what was going on.

        • longbottom/P.Biglow

          Renney isn’t and never has been a crappy coach. The difference between the two is Kreuger is also a motivational speaker. And as intelligent as Renney is he isnt and never has been one.And I never get tired of you guys who feel like the manegment told the coach to hold the reins in on this team.
          Was the coach telling the players to get injured? As happened when the longest losing trend happened at the same time as when 4 out the oiler’s top 6 defensemen were either on the IR or as in Suttons case suspended.
          were manegement at fault for Belanger an average 30-40 point guy having a rotten season apart from his FO%
          Was it management’s fault it took almost a full season for Hemsky and Whitney to recover from their offseason injuries?
          Funny how manegement is at fault for Khabi’s season to fall off so badly so quickly.
          All these add up to a below average team being just plain rotten at times. I will believe the facts over conspirisousy theorys anyday.

  • There is no question that a strong defence is going to improve a goalie’s stats. It is very obvious that there will be more quality scoring chances against a very weak defence then there would be against an elite defence.

    Anyone who does not see this or agree with this is delusional. Obviously we have only seen Dubnyk play in front of the worst D corps in the NHL. Our D is still far from elite, but if healthy it is certainly improving. I look forward to seeing how much the D has improved and how Dubnyk plays in front of that improved defence.

  • billylikestodrinksoda

    On the note of Bunz being a excellent stickhandler. I saw him do several lacrosee style shots on his own net at the develepment camp. Very impressive! Not sure if it’s easier or harder to pick up a puck with a goalie stick but it was very unexpected and done with style.